Great Britian Socialized Medicine Going Broke, Fee's Proposed

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Cass

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The last time I looked your Police just drove around all day. Hardly "working the streets"..

Typical Englishman...you quoted only 1/2 the question and didn't answer it or try what I suggested...gee...you might become educated if you did...but just forget it and head to the pub...there you can sit around and discuss how to cure the evils of the world then go home and feel good about it...


and this question still goes unanswered also...

how much alcohol would you be willing to exchange for the death of a loved family member from a head on crash with a drunk driver...
 
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Ian Gills

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how much alcohol would you be willing to exchange for the death of a loved family member from a head on crash with a drunk driver...

At an emotional level, none, of course. Unlike Conservatives in this country, I am a human being after all.

Scientifically, about US$1 million - US$2 million of the stuff which is what your industries have valued the average life as being "worth" here.

But the problem again is less one of alcohol and more of America's weak stance and pathetic social attitudes towards drink driving in this country.

In England, all Police carry electronic breathalyzers and all drivers are tested, regardless, when stopped by the Police. If you are caught over the limit you can get a prison sentence and will get a 1-3 year driving ban. The severity of the sentence depends, in part, on how far over the blood alcohol limit you are.

It is also a taboo in England to drink ANY ALCOHOL and drive. People simply take public transport instead, if they are to drink, (another thing Americans are desperately lacking) or nominate a driver who refrains from drinking at all.

Not so in this country, where my neighbor got off after a court challenge. The fact that your officers often use a "field sobriety test" rather than electronic instruments to determine whether a driver has been drinking is, quite frankly, insulting. They can only test if the driver has been "suspected" of drinking. Again, weak.

Even when carried, in MOST states using a breathalyzer is optional and it is not an offence to refuse to take this test.

So I emphasize my previous point, alcohol is a symptom and the not the cause of your failing society. People who earn a decent wage, have a sense of dignity and are assured access to essential services such as healtcare and education rarely feel the need to turn to drink.

In the US of Alcoholics, you may have few other choices.

On a final note, one thing that I find strange here is people go to a bar alone to get drunk.

In Europe, 99.9% of people go to bars not to get drunk, but just to have one drink with friends and go home.
 
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Hackney plumbing

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If guns cause crimes then pencils cause misspelled words and alcohol causes car crashes. I say people cause all of the above!:confused:
 

Cass

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At an emotional level, none, of course. Unlike Conservatives in this country, I am a human being after all.

Scientifically, about US$1 million - US$2 million of the stuff which is what your industries have valued the average life as being "worth" here.

But the problem again is less one of alcohol and more of America's weak stance and pathetic social attitudes towards drink driving in this country.

In England, all Police carry electronic breathalyzers and all drivers are tested, regardless, when stopped by the Police. If you are caught over the limit you can get a prison sentence and will get a 1-3 year driving ban. The severity of the sentence depends, in part, on how far over the blood alcohol limit you are.

It is also a taboo in England to drink ANY ALCOHOL and drive. People simply take public transport instead, if they are to drink, (another thing Americans are desperately lacking) or nominate a driver who refrains from drinking at all.

Not so in this country, where my neighbor got off after a court challenge. The fact that your officers often use a "field sobriety test" rather than electronic instruments to determine whether a driver has been drinking is, quite frankly, insulting. They can only test if the driver has been "suspected" of drinking. Again, weak.

Even when carried, in MOST states using a breathalyzer is optional and it is not an offence to refuse to take this test.

So I emphasize my previous point, alcohol is a symptom and the not the cause of your failing society. People who earn a decent wage, have a sense of dignity and are assured access to essential services such as healtcare and education rarely feel the need to turn to drink.

In the US of Alcoholics, you may have few other choices.

On a final note, one thing that I find strange here is people go to a bar alone to get drunk.

In Europe, 99.9% of people go to bars not to get drunk, but just to have one drink with friends and go home.

Unlike the purposeful misuse of a gun...I know of no State that allows the possession of a firearm while drinking...but you can get in a 3000 Lb. car and cause havock...doesn't make sense to me...

the problem with Alcohol is the affect it has on people after it has been consumed...preception, reaction, personality, aggressiveness, and thought processes, can change and change, most times, according to the degree of consumption...

I don't think I have ever met any one who said I am gona go get drunk so I can do things I normally don't do...

ultimately if you lift a drink to your lips you are responsible for any outcome stemming from that decision reguardless...

Ian...I agree with you about inforcement...and the penalty's should be harsher

there should just be 0 driving while drinking...none...that would reduce the over 500,000 fatalities and injury's, in the US alone, due to it that occur yearly...

http://www.alcoholics-info.com/Statistics_on_Alcoholics.html

Ian...here are your stats which contradict your 1 drink and go home theory...

http://www.aim-digest.com/gateway/pages/trends/articles/England 2007.htm
 

Ian Gills

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the problem with Alcohol is the affect it has on people after it has been consumed...preception, reaction, personality, aggressiveness, and thought processes, can change and change, most times, according to the degree of consumption...

Yes, but many drugs have that effect.

Illegal ones as well as legal, useful ones. Weed, pain killers, beta blockers...the lot. Drugs change your physical and/or mental state and that is their purpose by design.

So:

So what if the odd American has a drink at Christmas because it's nice?

So what if someone else smokes a cigar?

So what if your friend takes a sleep aid tonight, because they are having trouble sleeping?

It's costs and benefits. And to ban drinking just because some nut in this country might get into a car drunk is about as bad as banning sugar because a diabetic might do the same.

Incidentally, a diabetic in England recent got sent to jail because he injured someone while driving and had not checked his sugar levels.
 
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Cass

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the cost in the US alone due to just alcohol abuse is around 100 billion dollars...

tell me any other drug that is close...
 

Ian Gills

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100 billion dollars...
Peanuts. Auto accidents cost America more than $164 billion a year. So on your basis, let's ban cars! It would go a long way to curbing global warming as well.

tell me any other drug that is close...

Oh dear. Back to basics.

Now let me see.

Well, how about heroin which kills 100,000 people every year worldwide - more than any other illegal drug?

About 15 million people around the world use heroin, opium or morphine, fueling a $65 billion trade.

Now, tell me Cass where do you think they get the $65 billion to feed their habit from? Jobs? Rich parents? Charity or the Church?

No, I think you will find that they get it from crime and organized crime, from you and me.

Which is why God is again wrong, although I wish you would all take "love thy neighbor" a little more seriously as unlike alcohol He does mention it more than once (Matthew 22:39, Leviticus 19:18, Luke 10:27, Romans 13:9, Galatians 5:14, and James 2:8).

Ban the use of a drug, and the price goes up. And when the price goes up, habitual users start to steal.

Legalize, and they no longer have to. And the stuff would not be spiked with bleach.

You need to reduce the demand for drugs, not the supply.
 
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Ian Gills

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And what is this God kick your on

The last time I looked it was a Christian country. Although it would appear there's a bit of picking and choosing from some people when it comes to The Word.

Otherwise one would not deny Thy Neighbor's healthcare. Would they?

It looks like the Pro-Lifers (Catholics) are in D.C. protesting today as well.

Which is fine, but you don't see them offering to pay for the healthcare or education of the child out of their tax dollars were it to be born.

It's just more Conservative hypocrasy...do as we (and our Bible) say, but don't expect us to pay for it.

P.S. It would appear you are posting from the future!
 
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Cass

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Yes...back to basics you must go...and again you change or twist the subject...you didn't tell me of 1 other OTC legal drug...or didn't you notice that all the ones you listed were not legal ones...and stick to drugs in this country as thats what were talking about...I have no control as to what other country's do because I am not a citizen of them...

It is also hard to believe you can't discern between something people do for self gratification or to alter their consciousness from something that is a necessity to go to work, shopping, Etc....but then again I keep having to remind my self, you are an Alien Englishman...

the 2 are apples and oranges...incase you can't tell...so don't even try and compare them...it won't, and doesn't, work...

Now tell me...if you can...what would be a more loving thing to do for your neighbor who can't handle booze and might kill you while driving...to make it so he can't get alcohol....or to make it easy for him to get it....


And what is this God kick your on....try Proverbs 20:1, Isaiah 28:7, Habakkuk 2:15

Well it's about 7:30 and I am going to go out and burn all my empty cardboard boxes and trash while the wind is heading south east...the additional global warming will help lower your heating bill...you know...help thy neighbor...
 
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Cass

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The last time I looked it was a Christian country. Although it would appear there's a bit of picking and choosing from some people when it comes to The Word.

Otherwise one would not deny Thy Neighbor's healthcare. Would they?

It looks like the Pro-Lifers (Catholics) are in D.C. protesting today as well.

Which is fine, but you don't see them offering to pay for the healthcare or education of the child out of their tax dollars were it to be born.

It's just more Conservative hypocrasy...do as we (and our Bible) say, but don't expect us to pay for it.

P.S. It would appear you are posting from the future!

Posting from the future...a glitch in the new software I guess...

About denying your neighbors health care being anti christian...Are you a Biblical Scholar who understands how to read things in context or do you just whip out Bible verses when you think it fits your rants...I guess you think if a person needs anything then he should get it...you must have missed these... 1 Timothy 5:8, and 2 Thessalonians 3:10

You are truly ignorant...and it boggles my mind...there isn't a child in this country that would or has gone without education or health care except for lack of the parents getting it for them...that is because in this country people give out of true concern for others...YOU MUST BE DAFT...thats one of the reasons people are willing to risk their life trying to get here....surely you don't think people risk their life to get to a country with horrible benifits...that is why this Christian country has always given more to the rest of the world than vice versa...it is the Christian values that make this happen...

BTW...this is another truly ignorant thing you keep spouting...Conservatives = Christians...while you may find people who are both the 2 are not exclusive one to another...you can be 1 and not the other...there are plenty of Liberals who are Christians and there are plenty of Conservatives who are not Christians...so get it right or wallow in ignorance...hard to believe a Liberal intelligent guy like you didn't already know this...

placing people into catagorys like that is reminiscent of someone who is...____________...are you ?
 
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Cookie

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Not trying to be rude here, but it always amuses me when people "fling or shoot" parts of the bible at each other like "bullets or weapons" like saying... HERE TAKE THIS! or THIS! People are so funny when it concerns their personal beliefs. That is why, certain things just can't be discussed.
 

Cookie

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I found this by accident and thought I would share, do not assume my opinion or position on this either way. It is interesting that is all to me.
legalizeweed.us
 
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Gary Slusser

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I believe we should legalize pot and other recreational drugs while continuing to confiscate all of the smuggled drugs we can and then, instead of destroying them, we would package the confiscated drugs up into individual doses and give them to anyone 21 years old or older that want them. Of course we would pass laws that prevent liability type lawsuits.

We would also release all those incarcerated for drug use convictions.
 
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