Goulds 10GS15 Submersible Pump Amperage Concern

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Carl_NH

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Hi All,

Just found this site - looks like a lot of knowledge is here on pumps and things. So here is the situation I am facing.

Last year I was getting 12.9 to 13.2 amperage, which is right at the SF for this motor, and this year, it's pulling 13.7 to 13.8.

I check the bladder tanks annually for pre charge 35-38 PSI and also amperage draw several times a year.
This is over the SF for the pump and I suspect the motor is on its way out.

I have a new spare pump and motor in the barn ready to go in, as I think its a matter of months - what are some of the other checks I can do to evaluate why the amperage is going up?

Then should I replace both Pump and Motor both or just the motor?

Here are the details about our installation:

Gould 10GS15 - 1.5HP Franklin motor - installed June 2007
Well Depth 400'
Pump set @ 375' water level varies from 65-100' down
1" 200PSI Poly with 10GA wire - 2 Torque arrestors 1 @ Pump and 1 about 150'
2 Wellxtrol 28Gal bladder tanks in series with a 40/60 switch setting so about 20 gal drawdown total

Usage:
Primarily household use - 2 people and then in summer we use irrigation sparingly - meaning when needed we water the dry areas of the lawn only - with sprinkler system and I have it set up with the heads/output so the pump runs most of the time - meaning less cycling. Our first pump lasted 8 years when we ran the irrigation all the time. This pump has lasted 11 years with more sparing use of irrigation.

Thanks in advance for your advice!
 

Carl_NH

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I would throttle the discharge to the pump. If amps go up it’s on it’s way out.
Understood - as less volume should equal lower current draw, but I don't have a valve in the line - so all I could do is clamp a vise grip on the line to throttle the flow back.
 

Carl_NH

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BTW - this is a 2 wire 1.5 HP Franklin motor that has a rated 10.6 amp draw with a SF of 1.3, so no control box to change capacitors etc.
 

Texas Wellman

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Normally you would not have any valves in the discharge lines. You would have to custom install one. Be sure to remove it after the test as well.

The other possibility is that the water level has risen allowing the pump to pump more water. More water equals higher amps.
 

Carl_NH

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Yes thanks Texas wellman - I would need to put a ball valve in the incoming line - that's not too hard to do. Your point about it pumping more due to a higher water level is a viable one.

In preparation today for a replacement soon, I set up my new spare 10GS15 in a garbage can to water test it with a throttling valve in the line.

Results wide open no restrictions or head pressure it drew 12.5 amps, then with valve 3/4 closed it went up to 13 amps - so the amps increased with reduced flow - hmm they should decrease was my belief. I didn't fully shut the valve though, it was a 1" PVC ball valve installed 6" above the pump output.
 

LLigetfa

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I read that the Goulds floats the impeller on each stage so the all the combined thrust bearings loads the motor, unlike the Grundfos that carries all the thrust on the motor's bearings.
 

VAWellDriller

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Have you ohmed motor windings, and ground resistance?....I have found this to be much more indicative of a failing motor than the amp draw. I can't explain it but we see new pumps all the time going a little over SF amps right out of the box....haven't had any problems. Also have you checked voltage? Depending on distance to house, with pump set that deep #10 wire is getting a little small. This shouldn't have changed though since the wire has been in the whole time I presume. Another thought is it might not be a very good pump pic.....you mention water level varying from 65-100 ft....if that info is correct this pump is always running way off it's curve...in a way that would make it draw high amps. If that is just the static level, then ignore that comment.
 

Valveman

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The amps should go down when closing a valve on a Goulds pump. It doesn't hurt to fully close the valve for one minute or so, and the amps should go down. I am afraid the amps increasing on the pump you have means the motor thrust bearing is dropping. This is usually caused by a lack of flow past the motor or lots of cycling.
 

Ballvalve

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Normally you would not have any valves in the discharge lines. You would have to custom install one. Be sure to remove it after the test as well.

The other possibility is that the water level has risen allowing the pump to pump more water. More water equals higher amps.

This guy barrel tested a NEW pump and the amps went up when throttled down. Go figure. And Valveman is deeply invested in this sort of thing with the cycle stop valve. I don't think a rise in water level would matter much unless he is running irrigation full bore. Last time I put a 1.5 HP old but hardly used Jaquzzi in a barrel, with a billion stages for an 800' deep well, Amps decreased about.75 with the outlet shut off. Motor was new, pump head was old. But as mentioned above he needs to follow all the ohm readings between leads not only FLA. I would wait until the amps rise another few points before fooling with it.
 

Valveman

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Some badly designed pumps do not drop in amps when the flow is restricted, but the amps should not go up. Pumps should draw the maximum amps when there is NO restriction and they are running wide open. And they should be non-overloading no matter how high the water level and how wide open they are running.

The only ones I have seen that don't drop in amps at least a little when restricted are the floating stage type pumps like the Pentair 10 GPM and most of the new Franklin 25 GPM or less pumps.
 

Carl_NH

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Have you ohmed motor windings, and ground resistance?....I have found this to be much more indicative of a failing motor than the amp draw. I can't explain it but we see new pumps all the time going a little over SF amps right out of the box....haven't had any problems. Also have you checked voltage? Depending on distance to house, with pump set that deep #10 wire is getting a little small. This shouldn't have changed though since the wire has been in the whole time I presume. Another thought is it might not be a very good pump pic.....you mention water level varying from 65-100 ft....if that info is correct this pump is always running way off it's curve...in a way that would make it draw high amps. If that is just the static level, then ignore that comment.

That's the variable static level - 65-100' down depending on drawdown and time of year.

I have tested the new motor (direct to leads) and it reads 2.0-2.1 consistently with the ohm meter set at 200 ohm level so moving a decimal point its at 20-21 so is at spec- lowest my meter goes.

I turned off the power and tested the leads at the pump switch and got a reading of 3.1 which tells me the motor should be fine.

I also tested to ground and nothing.

Distance to well head from house is 50' # 10 wire, and supply voltage is high 256-260 VAC - on the standard house outlets we have 127-130 VAC

Something seems off here, higher voltage should equal lower amperage, Per Franklin:





Condition of Motor and Leads OHM Value Megohm Value
New motor, without power cable 20,000,000 (or more) 20.0
Used motor, which can be reinstalled in well 10,000,000 (or more) 10.0
Motor in well – Readings are power cable plus motor
New motor 2,000,000 (or more) 2.0
Motor in reasonably good condition 500,000 to 2,000,000 0.5 – 2.0


















































 

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Carl_NH

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That's the variable static level - 65-100' down depending on drawdown and time of year.

I have tested the new motor (direct to leads) and it reads 2.0-2.1 consistently with the ohm meter set at 200 ohm level so moving a decimal point its at 20-21 so is at spec- lowest my meter goes.

I turned off the power and tested the leads at the pump switch and got a reading of 3.1 which tells me the motor should be fine.

I also tested to ground and nothing.

Distance to well head from house is 50' # 10 wire, and supply voltage is high 256-260 VAC - on the standard house outlets we have 127-130 VAC

Something seems off here, higher voltage should equal lower amperage, Per Franklin:





Condition of Motor and Leads OHM Value Megohm Value
New motor, without power cable 20,000,000 (or more) 20.0
Used motor, which can be reinstalled in well 10,000,000 (or more) 10.0
Motor in well – Readings are power cable plus motor
New motor 2,000,000 (or more) 2.0
Motor in reasonably good condition 500,000 to 2,000,000 0.5 – 2.0


































I suspect it could be the pump rather than the motor causing the increased amp draw. But right now will just keep monitoring the pump and amperage draw.

Just don't want to be in the middle of winter and lose water - I have all the stuff to replace - new wire, torque arrestors, so I intend to replace all the parts but the pipe - since the wire was chafed in one spot on the last pull out I bought new wire.

I have pulled pumps myself down to 200' but I am not at the age 60+ that I want to do this anymore, so need a puller - I have a tractor with a backhoe, so what would you all do? Is there a pulley rig that attaches to the wellhead?

CB
 

Carl_NH

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Just rent your youngest and biggest friend for the day

Yes - my neighbor is here to help, but I contacted our well co - they have done our irrigation and two pumps now over the last 20 years and used Goulds but when I asked about them installing my new spare pump (same goulds as they installed) they said "we don't install customer owned equipment" - this was the service manager response, and not the owner whom we know and dealt with in the past. I do not expect them to warranty my equipment - just remove and install it.

They are now selling and installing Berkeley pumps - they are a good reputable firm, so three questions, are Berkeley good pumps, and do you feel their position to not install my pump is valid, and third, this is probably a 4 +- hour job for 2 men - what is a fair estimate of labor to replace the pump $500-800?
 

Valveman

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With 2 men, an expensive hoist truck, CDL driver, insurance, and licenses they might break even at 500-800 bucks. And that is only if they can do a job like that everyday, because the truck and other payments are the same every day no matter if they have a job or not. That is why they don't want to set pumps they don't sell. The labor barely makes payroll, and the profit comes from the sale of the pump.

Pentair motors are OK as long as you don't use a 2 wire. But there pumps have floating stages like Franklin, which both brands drag and wear quicker than a brands without floating stage designs like Goulds and Grundfos.
 

Carl_NH

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With 2 men, an expensive hoist truck, CDL driver, insurance, and licenses they might break even at 500-800 bucks. And that is only if they can do a job like that everyday, because the truck and other payments are the same every day no matter if they have a job or not. That is why they don't want to set pumps they don't sell. The labor barely makes payroll, and the profit comes from the sale of the pump.

Pentair motors are OK as long as you don't use a 2 wire. But there pumps have floating stages like Franklin, which both brands drag and wear quicker than a brands without floating stage designs like Goulds and Grundfos.

They have the Ups a Dazy puller, and the last time it was about an hour to get pump out, an hour to replace and inspect the lines, test run, then lower into the well and runs some tests - three hours total. No CDL, no hoist truck. Yes I understand product sales drive revenue and services are a cost center - you need enough staff to install and support - they also have other products - filtration, softener, irrigation.

Thanks for your comments on the pumps, I thought the Goulds were floating stage as well? Here is the GS series statement below - is this not the same as a floating stage? I have the new GS1015 on hand now, but my preference is the Grundfos pump SP series all SST.


Sand Handling Design: Our face clearance, floating impeller stack has proven itself for over 40 years as a superior sand handling, durable pump design.
 

Valveman

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face clearance, floating impeller stack has proven itself for over 40 years as a superior sand handling, durable pump design.

Face clearance is the key. Floating stack means all the impellers are being held up by the thrust bearing in the motor. This leaves a certain "face clearance" between the impellers and diffusers.

Floating stage means all the impellers are loose on the shaft and actually ride/drag on the diffuser (no face clearance). When they talk about how it takes all the load off the motor thrust bearing, you know it is a floating (dragging) stage type pump.

The difference is a motor thrust bearing is completely frictionless. There is a film of water between the Plates and Shoe. While a plastic impeller dragging against a plastic diffuser causes friction and wear. The best they can do is use plastics like Delren, which has some self lubricating ability. but there is still no face clearance, so any debris is going to cut the plastic as it goes by. The friction causes them not to drop in amps like a floating stack design, and the lack of face clearance leaves no room for sediment to pass without causing wear.
 
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