Gonna be a fun day of fishing

[Hatsuwr]

Well pump doesn't have a safety rope. Tried pulling by the one you see in the picture, but that was just wrapped around the pipe apparently and broke it. Only about 7' down thankfully, so I made a hook on the end of some rebar to catch the rope. Hopefully the pump comes with it, but if not I'll try getting a proper knot at the end of a longer rope slipped over the pipe.

The pump itself fell about 6'... I'm hoping it and the wiring are intact, but I'm not expecting to be that lucky.

I'm surprised it didn't drop any further though. If the pump is resting at the bottom of the well now, then it couldn't have been more than 1' off the bottom when it was running. Water was as clear as it's always been though... One thing I did notice was that it was a lot harder to pull up this time around. Didn't feel like any restrictions near the top, so I'm wondering what could cause that down near the pump.

 

[Hatsuwr]

Well, I was able to hook the rope with this contraption, and pulled at around 150 lbs before it came loose from the pipe. Put a scale on to see the force that I was pulling with. By comparison, I must have been pulling with well over 200 lbs initially though, when the pipe broke, so I'm still thinking something is stuck at the bottom.

I tried measuring the depth, but only got around 50' before the float seemed to get stuck. Guessing the PE pipe is wandering on its way down and blocking it.

Next up is to slip a knot over the pipe and try pulling again. I'm worried about breaking the pipe closer to the bottom, but I'm not sure what else there is to do at this point.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Valveman]

Poly usually stretches instead of breaking. Did it come lose at a connection? A nylon lifting strap slipped over the pipe will pull whatever is down there. If the pipe breaks at the pump and you can get all the rope and wire out, you can probably just shorten the pipe a bit and set a new pump just above the old one.

 

[Hatsuwr]

Poly usually stretches instead of breaking. Did it come lose at a connection? A nylon lifting strap slipped over the pipe will pull whatever is down there. If the pipe breaks at the pump and you can get all the rope and wire out, you can probably just shorten the pipe a bit and set a new pump just above the old one.

I couldn't see the bottom of that rope I was pulling on, and I guess it was twisted strangely around the pipe and crushed it. Here's what the broken end looks like:

 

[Reach4]

I couldn't see the bottom of that rope I was pulling on, and I guess it was twisted strangely around the pipe and crushed it. Here's what the broken end looks like:

What are we looking at? Was the pipe going thru a board, you forcefully lifted the board, and the pipe broke?

Or did the pipe let go of the barbed fitting?

 

[Hatsuwr]

What are we looking at? Was the pipe going thru a board, you forcefully lifted the board, and the pipe broke?

Or did the pipe let go of the barbed fitting?

The PE pipe broke below the pitless adapter. The picture is the end of the piece that was still connected to the pitless adapter - I just cut the last few inches off so I could have a clean face to measure. The board its on is just my workbench. It broke on a continuous section, not where any fittings were.

 

[Hatsuwr]

Got the rope tied and slowly increasing tension. Currently keeping a constant 100 lbs and getting a bit of slack in the wires over time (edit: 200 lbs now, and only a few inches of movement so far). Really feeling like the pump is stuck on something and slowly breaking through.

Might need to have sediment/buildup cleaned out, but not looking forward to the $900 quote I got. At that price it seems like I could just buy the equipment to redneck MacGyver it.

 

[Reach4]

4-inch ID steel casing?

 

[Hatsuwr]

4-inch ID steel casing?

PVC, unless it transitions. It does look a little funny in that last picture.

At this point I think the pump is hung up on something. I put 220 lbs on it, and only seemed to stretch the pipe after the first few inches. I poured a bit of diluted bleach down to hopefully help with iron buildup - lots of that here.

 

[Reach4]

PVC is nice.

In some places, when they drill into rock, they only run the casing part way. But when you go thru clay or sand, they will put casing, with a screen at the bottom.

I don't expect bleach to dissolve iron. Instead I would think an acid, such as Iron Out, would have a better chance with iron/rust.

How far down to water?

Have you tried to compute how much the pipe full of water would weigh? Weights of Pump+wire+pipe+ (water in pipe above the waterline)-- if the pipe is long enough, that could add up.

 

[Valveman]

Need to pull on the wire at the same time. Don't let slack in the wire or it can wedge the pump in place.

 

[Hatsuwr]

PVC is nice.

In some places, when they drill into rock, they only run the casing part way. But when you go thru clay or sand, they will put casing, with a screen at the bottom.

I don't expect bleach to dissolve iron. Instead I would think an acid, such as Iron Out, would have a better chance with iron/rust.

How far down to water?

Have you tried to compute how much the pipe full of water would weigh? Weights of Pump+wire+pipe+ (water in pipe above the waterline)-- if the pipe is long enough, that could add up.

I did some testing on a old part of my water treatment system to see what would remove that particular form of iron buildup best. The oxidizers seemed to do a great job, but I may as well try an acid as well. The oxidizers tended to just separate it from the plastic, while the acids (slowly) dissolved it.

I'm having some issue measuring the depth of the well - the string I use is clinging to the side of the casing strongly enough to hold up the weight I use. Had a foot of rebar on last time and got to around 120', but it was really slow going toward the end and may not have reached the bottom (it was at least wet though).

120' of water in a 1" pipe should work out to around 40 lbs. I'd estimate a pipe weight of less than 30 lbs, and pump probably isn't more than 40 lbs. I had the tension at 220 lbs for a while before stopped to reassess.

Need to pull on the wire at the same time. Don't let slack in the wire or it can wedge the pump in place.

Yup, was pulling on the wire too. Best I can tell, it's not stuck on that, but at this point I'm thinking my best option might be to get a camera down there.

 

[Bannerman]

Most iron within deep well water, will be in a ferrous state which is clear and fully dissolved in the water. Oxidants such was oxygen, H2O2, chlorine, ozone or pot-perm, will oxidize ferrous iron, converting it to a ferric state, thereby allowing the resulting heavy solid particles (rust) to precipitate out from the water or be easily removed with conventional filtration media.

Adding chlorine into the well will hasten the oxidation process within the well, thereby resulting in a larger quantity of heavy, sticky iron sediment than would normally be present.

Once a functioning pump has been reinstalled, suggest temporarily keeping the discharge pipe disconnected at the top of the casing, thereby allowing the pump to run with the least restriction possible to clear out the well at the pump's maximum delivery rate for a few hours.

 

[Valveman]

Camera might get stuck too. But I would probably try it.

 

[Hatsuwr]

Well, got a 165' drain camera. Got me to the water, but not quite to the pump. Got an extension cable on the way. Wouldn't be any good for pushing a drain, but should be fine to dangle the camera from... Will tie a backup cord to it just in case though.

Not sure what I'm expecting to find. I pulled the pump without too much difficulty a few years ago. Definitely took more than its weight to pull though, and I only pulled about 10' to work on the pitless adapter.

I don't think it's a rope or wire wedged between the pump and casing. If it is though, I'll probably make a hook of some sort and try to catch it. More likely in my mind is iron buildup. Not sure how else to address that besides what I've been doing - bleach, acid, and pulling harder.

My only (bad) idea so far for that possibility is to use some ~2" PVC with a 3" coupling at the end with teeth cut into it to clean the walls of the casing while washing it down with water. That'd be about $300 to throw together.

We'll see what the camera shows this weekend.

 

[Reach4]

A Grundfos SQ 3-inch pump would give a lot more clearance inside of the casing.

 

[Hatsuwr]

Alright, so the top of the pump is just about exactly 165 feet down. Haven't measured the top of the water, but I'd estimate around 140'. Haven't managed to get a good picture yet, but while moving the camera around, there seems to be very little buildup on the casing. I think I can see a wire wedged between the casing and the pump, but if so, it is not the same type of wire that follows the drop pipe the rest of the 165'.

Found some old records, and the pump seems to be from 2007 - a 1/2 HP 230V stainless steel Schaefer pump, attached with 1" 100 PSI roll pipe.

 

[Hatsuwr]

So it seems like I have 4 options

1. Get a hook onto the hole at the top of the pump (the one for a safety cable).
----This seems like the safest route, but the hardest. I can use my camera to guide the hook, but no guarantee I can actually get it on.
2. Push down on the pump while pulling the wire.
----I could throw together some 1/2" EMT conduit and put a decent amount of force on it. Problem is, I don't know for sure what is causing the obstruction. I couldn't see any movement of the bottom of the wire when pulling on the top of it. If it is the wire, I'm thinking it's slack that was left after splicing the pump wiring.
3. Pull harder by the drop pipe
----It's held 250 lbs so far, but I'm not sure how much further I can push that without breaking or separating it.
4. Pull harder by the wires
----Probably just going to break them and solve nothing

Here's the best video I was able to get of the potential issue so far: https://streamable.com/lfi45a

 

[Hatsuwr]

Alright, plan for the day is to try pushing the pump down.

I'll get some 2" PVC joined with couplings, but not glued. I will have a rope tied to the bottom piece to retrieve the PVC when done, and I can just slip the pieces off as I pull them up.

On the bottom piece I will cut some teeth so it can cut through any tape remaining holding the wire to the pipe. If this fails, 2" is enough to have the wire inside the PVC too, but I'd rather have it on the outside so I can pull the wire as I push the pump.

I figure I only pulled with a max of ~300 lbs. Considering the weight of the water, pipe, and pump, that was maybe ~200 lbs that wedged the wire between the casing and the pump. When I push, all of those will be helping, so I expect 100-200 lbs of pushing should do it. I think 2" Sch 40 will handle that, especially with a 4" casing keeping it from bowing too much.

I'll have to cut off my current knot that is holding the drop pipe and make a new one with some thinner rope, but that shouldn't be too much of a problem.

 

[Valveman]

Would be better to use 1" steel pipe to push down with. But pvc is worth a try if you don't lose that down the well also.