Gas water heater replacement recommendations

[Timwilson]

Hello, I currently have a 284L electric hot water tank that is nearing 11 years old and am looking for a natural gas replacement.

My house is 5 bedroom with 3 upstairs and two downstairs. There are two tub/showers upstairs and one tub/shower downstairs. The basement is rented out as suit so there is two sets of washer dryers in the house as well. There are usually 4-5 people living in the house at a time on average.

We are located in Kelowna and have natural gas hooked up and currently heat the house with a natural gas forced air furnace.

Our cost of electricity is as follows:

Bimonthly Residential Conservation Rate
Rate Period 01/12/16 - 03/11/16 60 days
Basic Customer Charge 31.23
Energy Used Block 1: 1,600 kWh @ $0.09845/kWh 157.52
Energy Used Block 2: 2,582 kWh @ $0.15198/kWh 392.4

Where as Natural Gas is billed at:

$13.264/GJ (33.41 / 2.5 GJ)

Here are some picture of where we will be installing
https://imgur.com/a/bnPsY:

And finally here are some of the available rebated:

Qualifying 0.67 EF storage tank water heaters ($200 rebate)
https://www.fortisbc.com/Rebates/Re...tialWaterHeaterModels_0_67_EFStorageTanks.pdf
Qualifying non-condensing tankless water heaters ($400 rebate)
https://www.fortisbc.com/Rebates/Re...alWaterHeaterModels_NonCondensingTankless.pdf
Qualifying condensing tankless water heaters ($500 rebate)
https://www.fortisbc.com/Rebates/Re...ntialWaterHeaterModels_CondensingTankless.pdf
Qualifying condensing hybrid water heaters ($500 rebate)
https://www.fortisbc.com/Rebates/Re...dentialWaterHeaterModels_CondensingHybrid.pdf
E. Qualifying condensing storage tank water heaters ($1,000 rebate)
https://www.fortisbc.com/Rebates/Re...lWaterHeaterModels_CondensingStorageTanks.pdf

Any help choosing a replacement tank will be much appreciated. Thank you!

 

[Dj2]

For 4-5 persons, you need a 75 gal high recovery tank.

Converting from electric to gas, you need to plan on:
1. Bring gas to the location - most likely permit required.
2. Install a vent to the outside, per code.
3. Strap the water heater to the studs.
4. Might need to place it on a stand.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Dana]

Does B.C. code require strapping the water heater to the studs, California style? I'm not so sure...

Most 4-5 person showering families do just fine with a standard 50 gallon/190 litre tank with a ~35-40KBTU/hr input burner, but with the potential for 2 simulaneous tub fills there may be a reason to upsize.

If you're planning to live there pretty much forever it's probably worth installing a condensing stainless steel tank with a 75,000 BTU/hr or larger burner, which should be good for 20-25 years rather than 10-12 years for a typical gas fired standalone.

A pretty-good electric tank runs about 8% standby loss so it takes about 100kwh/0.92= 109kwh to deliver 100kwh of heat into the water. At a marginal cost of 10 cents/kwh that's $10.9o/100kwh, net, and at a marginal cost of 15 cents/kwh it's $16.35/100kwh.

1 GJ=~278kwh

At 67% net efficiency and you get the equivalent of 0.67 x 278= 186 kwh of heat into the water.

At 90% net efficiency (minimum condensing) you get the equivalent of 0.90 x 278= 250 kwh of heat into the water.

Normalizing to $/100 net-kwh the EF 0.67 costs $13.26/1.86 =$7.13/100kwh.

The condensing tank costs $13.26/2.50= $5.30/100 kwh

A family bathing showering daily would burn through ~1000-1500kwh/person per year at Kelowna style incoming water temps, so for a family of 5 the operating cost savings of the condensing tank would only add up to $20/year, not enough to recover the cost-adder over a 10 year period, but over a 20 year span plus the cost of non-condensing replacement it can make financial sense, especially with the $1000 up front rebate.

The all stainless HTP Phoenix Light Duty (light duty only compared to commercial water heaters) PH76-50 or PH76-60. Would make it. A 76K condensing burner can sustain a full-flow shower 24/7, the 50 or 60 gallons of capacity can fill a standard tub and recover completely in under 10 minutes with a burner that size. They run ~USD$2000-2300 retail through US distributors- I'm not sure what it would cost in Kelowna in CDN$.

 

[Dj2]

"Does B.C. code require strapping the water heater to the studs, California style? I'm not so sure..."

Regardless if it does or does not, at $10 for a set of straps, you can't find a cheaper insurance in case of a quake.

Did you know that Oklahoma, not California, is now the state with the most quakes in the union?

IMHO, all water heaters ought to be braced.

 

[Jadnashua]

Typically, when you run into earthquake country, you need both strapping and flexible feed lines. FWIW, some places require it to be rigid pipe.

 

[Dana]

In places where it's not required that $10 set of purpose-made straps might need to be ordered online. They're definitely not on the shelves in my neighborhood, nor are they to be found on web searches at the Kelowna box store outlets, whereas multiple versions are readily found on the L.A. box store sites (none for as little as USD$10 though.)

A bit of web searching showed that some seismically active jurisdictions on the western slope of the mountains in B.C. do require strapping water heaters, but I didn't find evidence of an Okanagan valley township with such a requirement (though IIRC south of the border it's state-wide code in WA.)

 

[Timwilson]

Alright, so it seem if I where going to go with a condensing tank my best bet would be the HTP Phoenix Light Duty PH76-50 long term or the A.O. Smith Vertex GPHE50 short term. Or if I go with a non condensing tank a 50 gallon tank 40KBTU/hr input burner or larger. Are there any non condensing models in particular that I should price out? Rheem tanks seem to be the most easily available in Canada.

 

[Dj2]

Dana, about water heater straps:
Contractoraccess.com has them (Los Angeles approved) for $11 to $15.
If straps are not required in your city, use metal plumber tape ($1 for a 3/4"x10'). It was once approved in CA, then they discovered that they can get 10 times that amount from consumers.
Oh yes, plus shipping (but it comes to you and you don't spend time and gas to go to the store).

 

[Dana]

Dana, about water heater straps:
Contractoraccess.com has them (Los Angeles approved) for $11 to $15.
If straps are not required in your city, use metal plumber tape ($1 for a 3/4"x10'). It was once approved in CA, then they discovered that they can get 10 times that amount from consumers.
Oh yes, plus shipping (but it comes to you and you don't spend time and gas to go to the store).

Thanks for that!

Given that my water heater's shape is a right rectangular prism (ErgoMax E44), about ~40" tall x ~ 25" wide resting on a concrete slab next to an insulated concrete foundation wall. It is not connected to the gas plumbing, and all plumbing connections (both potable and space heating) are rigid copper. I'm not inclined to retrofit strap mine, but I'd definitely consider it for taller & narrower form factor, especially if supported by floor joists rather than a basement slab.

<< (not my water heater, but the same model)

Over the past 40 years (short in geological time, true) there have been no earthquakes with epicenters closer than ~25 miles from my house, the largest of which are still well shy of 5.0 on the Richter scale.

The largest known earthquake ever in my area was in 1755, with an epicenter about 80 miles away from my house, estimated to be a hint north of 6.0.

Unlike Oklahoma there has to date never been fracking for fossils (only for shallow potable well flow restoration), and there is a 10 year ban on deep well fracking in effect (enacted this past June), to be revisited after that point as better data on earthquake, water resource, and other risks becomes available. There are currently no known frack-exploitable fossil resources in this state anyway, despite gas-poor type black shale deposits in the western part of the state more than 60 miles away. The odds of fracking rising to a earthquake inducing levels in my area are about as slim as it gets.