Gas line entrance

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Reicherb

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So... I'm sure part of the correct answer is to hire a certified plumber. I'm cheap and unwilling... I'm hoping someone can help me make the best of the situation that I've created.

I'm running a gas line to my new pole barn. Before reading the directions on connecting the poly to steel adapter, I ran the poly through the foundation into the house. Is that ok or do I need to dig it back up at the entrance and go to galvanized before the foundation? I prefer not to dig it up of course but if I need to, so be it. Also, is there any harm in connecting galvanized to black pipe? All of the gas line in the house is made of black pipe.

On the other end of the pipe, I have the poly pipe entering the floor of the barn through 4" CPVC conduit. What is the best way to transition here? Am I ok to convert to steel as close to the floor as possible?

Thanks,

Brad
 

Sylvan

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Anyone who gives you an answer you can sue after the explosion or someone's death by gas asphyxiation

Good luck
 

Reicherb

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I'm not sure how helping me understand how it should be done would result in a lawsuit...
 

Jeff H Young

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I would check your code . We generally don't allow underground gas inside building except circumstances that require it and then they come under special requirements . But never heard of plastic inside
 

Reicherb

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I'm going to dig up the ends and install the correct risers to come in above ground. Next time research before installing!
 

Storm rider

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I'm sure part of the correct answer is to hire a certified plumber

That is all of the correct answer. I believe that Michigan requires a license and permit to install any gas piping. As Sylvan noted, the side effects of an error can be fatal.
 

DIYorBust

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From what I've seen around here, galvanized can connect to black. Both are steel pipe so no issues with that. Some plumbers say galvanized is required outside, others say it is prohibited inside or never allowed. Burried I believe it may not be approved, but usually epoxy or mil tape is approved. I believe galvanized is usually allowed indoors or exposed outdoors, but there is some theoretical risk of zinc flakes clogging gas nozzles. I've never had that issue, and would frankly prefer that all non-burried gas was done in galvi given the issues of black pipe rusting. Plastic pipe is usually used underground. In NYC, apparently this is no allowed, but it is done for service lines, so there may be a need to update the code there.

Entering a building foundation usually requires a steel sleeve to keep the foundation from crushing the actual pipe, even is that pipe is steel, so look into that.

Honestly I'm surprised there's so much ambiguity and variation in codes around this issue given the danger of a live gas leakncompared with a sewage line or domestic water system. That said I'm trying to wind down gas in my properties anyway. I think the safety issue and the emmissions issue will cause subsidies to move in the direction of electric heat pumps, dryers, and cooking equipment etc. Compact gas dryers are already off the market, and induction stoves are gaining traction. Cold climate minisplits are heating buildings down to -20 degrees.
 

Sylvan

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I guess the BTU input of the appliance to be added does not take into consideration or the developed length and the existing meter size

Just arbitrary run piping anyplace someone sees fit.

Codes do not apply to DIY people only licensed professionals?

Shame I had to send my employees to a 12 HR course regarding installations when I could have saved over $4,000 just by hiring a DIY guy
 

DIYorBust

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What are you paying these days Sylvan? Maybe I should join up and get a gas card ;) . I'm assuming he knew how to size the gas line, but you're right, who knows. To be fair though, I had a plumber run a gas line for me recently in the city, and he really didn't know either. Unless you get a mechanical engineer, I wouldn't trust most plumbers to get it right. Some a like you, but I wouldn't assume that's even the majority. The fact is, there is a table that tells you how to calculate the developed a length and rate of flow. In theory, undersizing the gas line could generate carbon monoxide, which could be dangerous for certain indoor appliances. I'm not sure how like this is in practice. Why do you need gas in a barn anyway?
 

Sylvan

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What are you paying these days Sylvan? Maybe I should join up and get a gas card ;) . I'm assuming he knew how to size the gas line, but you're right, who knows. To be fair though, I had a plumber run a gas line for me recently in the city, and he really didn't know either. Unless you get a mechanical engineer, I wouldn't trust most plumbers to get it right. Some a like you, but I wouldn't assume that's even the majority. The fact is, there is a table that tells you how to calculate the developed a length and rate of flow. In theory, undersizing the gas line could generate carbon monoxide, which could be dangerous for certain indoor appliances. I'm not sure how like this is in practice. Why do you need gas in a barn anyway?[/QUOTE


I hired Albert 41/2 years ago starting @$75 PER HR

Then I started paying him $125 PER HR and he was working 12 hr days 6 sometimes 7 days a week and brought in several nursing homes

So I decided to allow him free rein and gave him 49% of my company and I told him I do not like to micromanage my company


Last year he bought one home this year he bought more multi-family homes.

He more than doubled the hourly rate.

He passed the backflow testing course, the Gas installer ICC license.

Albert now runs the company hiring and firing and he does all the estimating which allows me more time to travel

Regarding your comment

"To be fair though, I had a plumber run a gas line for me recently in the city, and he really didn't know either. Unless you get a mechanical engineer"

This is erroneous as the NYC master plumbers test and the test I took for Westchester on both LMP exams had several appliances on a plan with the BTU input and how far from the meter they were located


The first question to ask prior to sizing the piping is the specific gravity of the gas that is being supplied

Then starting at the most distant appliance you size the piping working back to the meter just like doing a fire suppression sprinkler system. Personally, I like to oversize the pipe by one commercial size larger than required.

The difference in price from 1" to 11/4 will not put the job over budget

Any plumber that cannot size a pipe properly should go take some coures

Mechanical engineers read the same charts a decent plumber has

For the gas meter installation we installed, I sized all the piping as NYC holds the plumber responsible regardless of what the engineer's state.

One part of the written test is an error sheet where they give us a set of plans for waste, vent, gas , leader lines and we have to find as many errors as possible

By interpolation, we size the main combination sewer either by calculation of sq feet of storm drainage or by fixture units.

Normally by sizing by fixture united the lines are smaller which is perfectly legal.

A few architects have a plumber size the piping and they seal it as their knowledge of plumbing has a lot to be desired.

Same with a PE as one who took the written part of the NYCmaster plumbers test failed miserably
 

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Sylvan

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In 2000 I wrote an article for an Australian website about incompetent people dabbling in gas piping. I wrote this article after a gas explosion happened in the big apple
 

Jeff H Young

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It is interesting we have differant codes. differant requirements . as far as I know anyone can work on gas lines in our state . as far as low pressure domestic lines . a unliscened handyman can I belive do 500 dollar and under jobs including gas piping. And a licsened plumbing contractor here with basicaly no gas piping experiance the sky is the limit. other than welded pipe requiring certified welders. or doing work on gas company property requires their certifications
 

Sylvan

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It is crazy how there are too many codes to follow.

The 1968 NYC plumbing code was amazing because in one book there was the DEP/ Gas/ plumbing/ fire suppression

The plumbing part had acid and chemical waste plus suds pressure zones and it was easy to do residential, commercial, industrial, and institutional just from one book.

Today being an expert witness I have to also use not only the plumbing code or the gas code and energy codes which is very time-consuming

A perfect example was a toddler who was burned by the exposed copper heating line.


I checked the plumbing, mechanical codes, etc. I did find an article from the energy code stating "Radiators do not need to be covered but the exposed piping to and from a heater must be insulated"

This is how we won the personal injury lawsuit


https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IFGC2018/chapter-4-gas-piping-installations
 

Sylvan

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Installed gas lines in June working alone threading, cutting and installing
 

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