For those wondering about alternatives to Toto.

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by jimpc, Jan 28, 2018.

  1. jimpc

    jimpc New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2017
    Location:
    New Jersey
    I've been on a toilet replacement binge at the house so I thought I'd share some insight that I've acquired. We wanted all skirted toilets so I went with the Kohler Corbelle and the Toto Vespin II. Both are 1.28gpf skirted ADA height elongated toilets with each company's respective premium ceramic coating. For those that don't know the Kohler Corbelle is a brand new model from Kohler with a brand new flush that mimics Toto's Tornado flush.

    Here we go.

    Design:

    I think to Toto looks nicer but the Kohler has the better skirt. However, the Toto does the same in a smaller package. Not only is the Vespin not as long but it doesn't sit as far from the wall as the Corbelle. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder of course.

    Installation:

    Kohler hands down. Kohler has taken Toto's unifit adapter and made it a lot better. With the Kohler you only screw down at the flange, the same as if you were installing a non-skirted toilet. There's no drilling into wood or your tile necessary. In addition, the Vespin bolts down at the back of the toilet while the Kohler bolts down at the middle of the toilet. This results in a much more snug and sturdy intall on the Kohler as the grip from the toilet to the floor is at the middle so the tightening is evenly distributed across the whole toilet. With the Vespin all of your downward force is at one end. So if I really wanted to I could wiggle left to right at the front of the Vespin and get it to move. You can't move the Kohler at all.

    Flush/Water:


    Water spot is good on both. You're not getting a 20 year old Gerber water spot anymore these days.

    I'd give a slight edge to the Kohler in the flush department. It's just a more powerful flush. Especially when comparing the quick flush on both toilets. The biggest advantage of the Kohler is the noise when flushing and refilling the tank. It's like a sedan vs a diesel truck. I'll have videos that show both toilets with a full flush and refill and you'll be able to hear for yourself.

    Comfort:

    Both are great. I'd recommend the Bemis soft close toilet seats you can get anywhere to rest your tush on. I prefer them over any manufacture's toilet seats.

    Price:

    I was able to get the Vespin for $340 and the Corbelle for $260

    Conclusion:

    Both are good products. I needed the Vespin for the 2 upstairs bathrooms because it takes up less space than the Corbelle. The toilets upstairs are perpendicular to the bathtubs and I didn't want to eat up more space than I had to. We had round bowls previously. For me personally if I had the room I would have made them all the Corbelle but I don't feel wanting with the Vespin. With that being said, I had to exchange my first Corbelle because of some really piss poor ceramic work that made it through quality control. I'm not talking got damage in shipping. I'm talking bubbles and craters on the finished portion of the bowl.

    Videos:
    https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1D92TuxUGTpgpTNNC7NJt3BehpKpXYaEQ?usp=sharing

    If you have any other questions feel free to ask.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
    davidjones likes this.
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    Good review, but it also reinforces Terry's experience in that Toto has the lowest defect rate of the toilets he sells. You should never need to hold the handle down to empty the tank on a well-designed toilet with normal use. The magic happens beneath the water level in the siphon jet, so it's tough to evaluate from just visuals. If this toilet has a similar trapway to other Kohler toilets, it makes the last turn to the drain at almost a 90-degree angle...the Toto unifit turns it in a nice arc.

    FWIW, many places require the toilet to be caulked to the floor, and once that's done, the mounting bolt location becomes a mute point. The caulk is to help prevent it from moving, but also to prevent dirty mop water, pee, etc., from making it underneath the toilet base where it is hard to impossible to clean.
     
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  4. Chaz2400

    Chaz2400 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2018
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    Thanks @jimpc, this is one of the only Corbelle reviews I could find as well so thanks for posting! I am also deciding on the Corbelle vs Drake or Drake 2. I know the Drake has the best flush but my wife likes the look of the Corbelle a lot better. How as your experience been so far, any clogs? Thanks!
     
  5. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
    davidjones and Chaz2400 like this.
  6. Aspiring DIYer

    Aspiring DIYer New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2018
    Location:
    Maryland
    Hi! Where did you purchase your Vespin and Corbelle?
     
  7. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I buy at wholesale. They typically like to see my business license at all of them and my tax number with the state.
    I sell retail.
    I advise buying locally for something like a toilet.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  8. fullysprinklered

    fullysprinklered In the Trades

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Occupation:
    self-employed plumber-electrician doing residentia
    Location:
    Georgia
    A Homer bucket half full of Tidy-Cat works pretty good on a construction site. Drop a couple of pregnant dung beetles in there and it will last you 2-3 weeks easy.
     
  9. michelle wolfe

    michelle wolfe New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2018
    Location:
    orting, wa
    Thank you for this review Jimpc! Question, is the Corbelle toilet compatible with a bidet attachment like this https://luxebidet.com/product/neo-120/
    I have one on another Kohler toilet that works great, just was not sure if it would work with this new style of toilet from Kohler. In the market for a new toilet and this seems to be what I'm looking for assuming a bidet attachment will work with it.

    [​IMG]

    Luxe Bidet Neo 120

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2018
  10. davidjones

    davidjones New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2018
    Location:
    Washington
    jimpc, thanks a lot for your review and videos. Now that you've had the Corbelle and Vespin for five months, which of the two toilets do you think rinses better and stays cleaner?
     
  11. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Occupation:
    "retired" and still building and troubleshooting
    Location:
    northfork, california
    I have been shopping toilets to death, since under $200 gets a full county rebate as long as water sense and MaP over 500. Terry says Toto Entrada, which I ordered, but I also got a few Kohler k-3658 at $199. MaP says 1000+ on both. Should flush oranges.
     
  12. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Oranges are too big to go down. I had a customer whose dog had dropped a tennis ball in a toilet. It got stuck at the outlet of a pressure assist Gerber.
    The TOTO has a slight edge on the Kohler because of the trapway design. You should be happy with both.
    MaP testing is done with plastic wrapped paste that is 4" long by 3/4" think. Way smaller than a round orange.
     
  13. jimpc

    jimpc New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2017
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Hey guys. Sorry about not being around, I just kind of forgot about it after I was done. Between the 2 I'd go with the Corbelle personally but it really is just about a 6 of one half dozen of the other situation. Both flush and clean well. The only day to day difference between the two is the Toto is a little more "violent" with the flush so it's a little bit louder. I also noticed the Corbelle went up a little in price since I purchased mine. You can still get it at Lowe's for just over $300 with a 10% off coupon which can be bought all day on ebay for a buck. Go with the design you like better because they're both equivalent models at the end of the day. If you don;t want to take my word for it search both models online and look at the product reviews. Virtually all of them are glowing. Have a good one.
     
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