Flow Inducer Sleeve; Need fine details, bolt size, etc

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JohnD2007

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Valveman: What is that White/Red object attached in the bottom of the 'Stack' in/on your Avatar, please? Is it a connecting, threaded inlet, or
valve? I'm gathering up pieces to connect from the top of my drop pipe to the "Tee" attached to my elderly 29 yr old, 42 gallon pressure tank. Still
can't decide whether to sleeve, or not to sleeve, and whether I should "hang" my new pump 2-3 ft higher than it was previously set at.
Some yrs back, I bought a little propane tank & torch kit, that I need to 'heat shrink' the rubber sealing 'shrink wraps' around the electrical connections that will join the pump wires to the power supply line, but I can't find it. To substitute "heat" to shrink the wraps around the elec connections; should I: A) use a hair dryer, or, B) use my propane pear burner torch kit instead? We got another round of rains here this last week, 3-5 inches, and I'm really doubly blessed the weather has enabled me to put off as long as possible, having to get my DIY water pump project completed. We've had 22" of rain already this yr, and our area's annual avg rain total is 24". So, we're green green green, for almost being August, with skeeters that would make east & south Tx envious.

Also picked up a 6-8 inch (length) 1" PVC "compression sleeve" in hopes of possibly using it in between where the drop pipe comes up above my
well cap, connecting the 18-24" span over to connect up to my "Tee" from the pressure tank.

PS: Went thru Tuscola, and passed "The Home Place" at least ten times in July, but was rushing to & from the jobsite, with a turkey sandwich in my lunch box, with no time to eat for the first time there. Someday though.........
 

Valveman

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The red and white thing is the Cycle Stop Valve. It delivers constant pressure and allows the use of the really small tank.

I would use the flow inducer sleeve and set at least a foot off bottom.

I don't think a blow dryer will get hot enough, and the pear burner will probably be to hot. I never use heat shrinks, I use 130C rubber tape.

Compression sleeves will blow apart unless the pipe is thrust blocked. It will just push the tank further away and the conpression fitting will blow off.
 

JohnD2007

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(Sorry if this posts twice)
Valveman, I'm headed to the city to pk up, "Rubber splicing tape" to substitute for the heat shrinks. Any suggestions for
an easy set-up of the span of piping from where the Drop pipe comes out of the (home made well cap) over to connect
to my "Tee"? This distance is approx 18-24 inches. I have some threaded (both end male) pieces of sched 80 in mind to
use. Want to make up this string of pipe, that can be "undone" instead of having to 'snip' & replace PVC 'glued' pieces.
Also, any easy fix/suggestions for rigging up something to prevent "Torquing" up top which is what I think you referred
to in your last message as "Thrust Block". Have decided to not use the compression sleeve/fitting, as per your advice.

Thanks again,

John
 

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Torque is not an issue up top. If you don't use a compression coupling, you don't need thrust blocks. Use a union. I like the PVC ones, they either glue on or thread on.
 

JohnD2007

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Well, I've got the pump attached to the drop pipe, wired on the wet end, and as soon as I can round up two to four
extra hands, will try to ease it all back into the hole. I'm worried about whether or not my electrical connections are
solid, and correct. Hopefully, if I've wired it incorrectly, it won't blow the pump, or me, up when I throw the switch.
Hope I can have two helpers to run it back in the hole instead of just one. Dunno if schedule 40 is more brittle/prone
to snapping than the thinner stuff that was on the old pump or not, hopefully not.
Wish me luck, thanks for all the helpful info and advice guys.

J/D
 

JohnD2007

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Ballvalve, I attached a 3' (4" PVC thin walled) flow inducer to the pump. I just used 3 C clamps at the
top, then Rubber Taped the C clamps, and then put a layer of the best Duct tape (Moisture resistant?) I
could find as the top layer, on top of the Rubber/Electrical tape. Using Valveman's suggestion, I didn't
do anything/use any bolts in the lower section of the shroud/sleeve/flow inducer, to center it. I intend
to hang the bottom of the Flow inducer, apprx 18-24 inches off the bottom of the well. Being my first
Rodeo with a DIY submersible pump replacement, lots of stuff is new to me, including the 'Flow Inducer'.
Being such a small space (annulus) between the pump's OD, between the 4" PVC, I'm hard pressed to
see how it will enhance 'flow', and or, provide cooler water in/around, and thru the pump, but I'm no
rocket scientist, or engineer by any stretch. Well, Barney Rubble & Fred Flintstone 'might' be impressed
with my mechanical expertise, but I know, 'I don't know much'. Hope it all works when I get it back in the
hole & get it plumbed up to the pressure tank. My blood pressure will be running a few points higher than
normal until I know all is working properly.

Thanks again for input, & advice from the experienced & pros here on this sight.

J/D
 

Valveman

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Even in tight fitting casing the water can be feeding the pump from the top. Since the motor is on the bottom, it doesn't have any flow going past it, and it will heat up. The flow inducer just "induces" the water to go past the motor before it enters the pump. Keeps the motor nice and cool, and also keeps the well from filling in around the motor.

If you use 130C rubber tape, you don't need to go over that with anything. If you do go over it, use regular electric tape, not duct tape. Duct tape has a tendency of coming loose under water and stopping up the pump.
 

Ballvalve

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Valveman, I just lined a well with 4" sdr100 that is more or less caving in, or making a ot of water from loose strata that is falling in. The well log proves its top fed, but with a 4 " liner I have no room for a flow inducer. Any tricks there or live with a warm motor? Better than a buried motor, I know that much.
 

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Franklin swears that you really no longer need a shroud on 2 HP and smaller motors, even with a top fed 4" casing. Supposedly the newer motors are so short in length, that even the bottom end is close enough to the intake to keep from over heating. Of course Franklin likes to sell motors, so they are not going to tell you that a shroud would still probably triple the motor life.

Another trick I have used is to put a short nipple in the pump with a check valve above it. Tap a 1/8" hole in the side of the short nipple and thread in a 1/8" elbow tube connector. Run a piece of 1/8" tubing past the bottom of the motor and turn it up, pointing at the bottom of the motor. Because it is below the check valve, this tube will have water only when the pump is on, and will circulate enough water to keep the motor cool. I used copper tube, poly would probably work as well. The length of the tube usually restricts the flow enough but, you could use an orifice or squeeze the line to set the flow to about 1 GPM, which is all you need. You will lose the 1 GPM from the flow rate but, the motor will be happy.
 

Ballvalve

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Now that is very innovative, good thinking. I have been designing in my head a submersible pump with the motor on TOP of the pump head, and the water flow through the exterior of the motor housing, perhaps a 1/8 or 3/16 annular space coming together at the discharge head. It would be a bit of difficult of manufacturing design, but it would turn the whole submersible pump system "on its head" and perhaps make the patent holder a pile of money.

If you do this, better delete this post so after your patent is in place I don't come looking for a percentage. Franklin must have explored this concept somewhere in its life span, would'nt you think?

But for smaller motors, you are right, they are very short and perhaps there is some convection exchange of water in a top fed well... which must mean MOST wells in the world.

And then Franklin winds "hot water motors" so the impetus to create an upside down submersible must be low on priorities.
 
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Valveman

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I can't take credit for the idea. I read it in a pump manual late 60's or early 70's. It was either an old Franklin book, or maybe a Reda book I learned a lot from. Haven't seen it published in a long time.

There is already a pump with the motor on top. Sta-Rite makes several models. I think they are catching on a little. Seems a good idea for cisterns and top feeding wells. Don't think they have been around long enough to know the track record.

Yeah regular motors are a lot shorter than they use to be. I guess having the thrust bearing closer to the intake for top feeding wells is about the only benefit for having tanken all the meat out of submersible motors.
 

Ballvalve

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I see that pump 'S.T.E.P.' but I only see a 1/2 hp model, but at a great price and good production at low amps. I cant tell from the schematic, are they running the water right through the motor itself? I dont see a channel and they say it passes .080 solids.

That looks like a top choice for tanks and septic pumps. How can they sell it at retail for $259? must be a ton of engineering in that. Imported?
 
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