Floor drain for softener

[Leah F.]

Hello,
I am planning to install a floor drain for a softener and wanted to run the drain set up by somebody. The softener is in an outdoor shed and the sewer line is around 6 feet from desired drain location, so I thought maybe I could tie (wrong word?) it into the sewer if it is according to code. Will what is sketched work or be made to work? It's hard to see, but the plumbing would be underground and set in the concrete. Also, I've attached a photograph of the area of my house and sewer this drawing refers to.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

To improve serviceability, I would install a standpipe and vent connection above grade, much like one would do for a washing machine drain.
For the connection to the main line, you must cut out a section of the existing pipe and replace it with a wye or combo fitting using fernco-style couplings. The drain piping installed below grade should be 2".

We could never have an installation like that here where I am, as it would all freeze during the winter.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Leah F.]

cacher, yes, I see that Madison, WI is a balmy 19 degrees!
I'm all for installing a standpipe and having accessibility. I have a few questions about that:
1 - since it is for a softener, does the stand pipe have to meet the minimum length requirements? I ask because I need the top of the stand pipe to be less than 27 inches above ground so that it is lower than the overflow tube.
2 - I like the idea of keeping it accessible for service. Is there something special that I need for a pipe that will be exposed to sun?
3 - Sorry, but I do not know what a "wye or combo fitting" looks like. Does this photo of the fitting on the sewer match what you described as needed to connect the softener drain to the "main line"?




Thank you.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

There would be no issue in having a standpipe that is 18-24" in length.

The fitting in the photo appears to be a combo, but I cannot tell if the inlet is 2" by the photo. Normally we would turn it down about 45 degrees and bury the piping deep enough so it will not be damaged if someone drives over it.

 

[Reach4]

A floor drain can be nice to have in a utility area.

I would add a soft water faucet there. That is nice for mixing yard chemicals into a sprayer. Soft water is less likely to clog strainers and orifices.

 

[Leah F.]

A floor drain can be nice to have in a utility area.

I agree. For a floor drain, is there a minimum distance required from the top of the drain to the trap weir?

 

[Leah F.]

Normally we would turn it down about 45 degrees and bury the piping deep enough so it will not be damaged if someone drives over it.

I, too, noticed how close it is to the surface and how awkward the wye is pointing straight up like that. I am hoping that with it being at the side of the house without the driveway it will be safe from cars. I am thinking of putting some landscape cap there to protect it from gardeners tools.
Do you think it is it going to be difficult to attach the horizontal drain to the wye or that there is an easy way to transition to connect to the horizontal pipe? Is there a way to design it to bring the pipe more snug along the house?

 

[Reach4]

For a floor drain, is there a minimum distance required from the top of the drain to the trap weir?

Many floor drains have a built-in trap and a plug in the bowl to bypass the trap for snaking.

 

[Leah F.]

Reach4, thank you for the photo of a floor drain--a picture is worth a thousand words.

There would be no issue in having a standpipe that is 18-24" in length.

What is the difference between a really short stand pipe and a floor drain?

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

Reach4, thank you for the photo of a floor drain--a picture is worth a thousand words.



What is the difference between a really short stand pipe and a floor drain?

just install a floor drain, dont fool with the stand pipe type of drains...

we see plumbers that have done stand pipes on slabs in homes and they are nothing but
trouble because when something floods there is
no drain at the floor level and the whole
area floods out....

After the heater floods the home when it goes bad, we break off the pvc stand pipe at the floor
when installing a new water heater to and pipe
the new pan into the drain...

I suggest just a simple floor drain like the one pictured.....
drill a hole through the plasitc lid and
extend a 3/4 pipe up a few feet if you
wish and then throw that water softener
drain into that extended pipe..... It will work fine

 

[Craigpump]

I bet your local code requires an "air gap" between the backwash line and drain to prevent potential cross contamination. Just shoving the backwash into the drain doesn't meet code in many areas.

 

[Reach4]

You can make your own air gap by supporting pipes/tubing above the drain, but you could use the Tru-Gap unit. Discussed in https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/water-distribution-re-plumb.59287/

http://www.tru-gap.com/

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

I bet your local code requires an "air gap" between the backwash line and drain to prevent potential cross contamination. Just shoving the backwash into the drain doesn't meet code in many areas.

I bet your local code requires an "air gap" between the backwash line and drain to prevent potential cross contamination. Just shoving the backwash into the drain doesn't meet code in many areas.

Their are plenty of ways to make an air gap into a floor drain....
the way I propose you simply put a larger 3/4 or 1 inch pipe down into the drain
and then you insert a smaller 3/8 water softener pipe into the larger one....
maybe 4 inches down but above the base a few inches and then secure the pipe.... that is an air gap.....

Air gaps like the one shown above have a tendency to splash
everywhere... its not a lot of water but it seems to piss enough out
to be irritating to the customer...and then you got a call back about a mouldy drywall issue or a wet basement floor

The common water softener air gap that glues on
a 1 1/2 pipe we have had to remove them before due to complaints
about the floor below always being slightly wet... many of them are installed
into a standpipe trap in the ceiling above the mechanical room.... they can be problematic

ANTYTHING is better than a cheap assed stand pipe coming out of
the concrete floor....

and of course you do it any way you want..
.go ahead and make a project out of it

 

[Reach4]

the way I propose you simply put a larger 3/4 or 1 inch pipe down into the drain
and then you insert a smaller 3/8 water softener pipe into the larger one....
maybe 4 inches down but above the base a few inches and then secure the pipe.... that is an air gap.....

Similar to this?

 

[Leah F.]

At risk of getting too creative for a softener drain: are there any ideas of a UPC configuration that is accessible above ground like cacher's suggestion of a stand pipe but short like a floor drain?

 

[Reach4]

At risk of getting too creative for a softener drain: are there any ideas of a UPC configuration that is accessible above ground like cacher's suggestion of a stand pipe but short like a floor drain?

A floor drain with a cleanout plug. http://cdn2.tmbi.com/TFH/Projects/FH00JUN_SEWBAS_01.JPG

 

[Leah F.]

A floor drain with a cleanout plug. http://cdn2.tmbi.com/TFH/Projects/FH00JUN_SEWBAS_01.JPG

Thank you, but sorry, I meant with all the piping and trap above concrete?

 

[Leah F.]

At risk of getting too creative for a softener drain: are there any ideas of a UPC configuration that is accessible above ground like cacher's suggestion of a stand pipe but short like a floor drain?

Sorry, I should clarify my above question. Is there a UPC configuration with the trap and pipe above ground but not tall like a stand pipe.

 

[Reach4]

are there any ideas of a UPC configuration that is accessible above ground like cacher's suggestion of a stand pipe but short like a floor drain?

No.

While considering other options, you could raise the brine tank on a stand as is often used for water heaters in garages, from what I hear. You would strap it for earthquake resistance like a water heater, I guess.

Instead of a standpipe, you could put in a low sink. Use that for the drains and for other uses.

You could run the softener drain to your standpipe, and that standpipe could be even above the softener. Then run the emergency brine tank overflow, which is unlikely to ever be needed, outside. I don't have an overflow hose for my brine tank.

You could put the brine tank outside. You could partially bury the brine tank outside.

You could use a floor over a crawlspace instead of a slab, but that is not what you had in mind.

Thank you, but sorry, I meant with all the piping and trap above concrete?

It seems to me that with the plug option, the drain is more accessible for cleanout than a glued up standpipe. What accessibility do you have with the above-floor standpipe? I guess with a standipe you could tee off. You could easily use an AAV for venting, and have the AAV easily accessible. But with a roof vent as you plan, what accessibility are you looking for?

 

[Leah F.]

It seems to me that with the plug option, the drain is more accessible for cleanout than a glued up standpipe. What accessibility do you have with the above-floor standpipe? I guess you could tee off. You could easily use an AAV for venting, and have the AAV easily accessible. But with a roof vent as you plan, what accessibility are you looking for?

Reach4, Accessibility was suggested earlier, but not explained, so not being a plumber, I was trying to take that into consideration. Thank you for all the ideas and reminding me that if I raise the softener I will need to strap it.

I am gravitating to the floor drain with clean out, but I can't find any rules on floor drains or if I can legally connect directly to a sewer pipe. The sewer is closest to the softener shed and is already excavated and ready to be connected. The distance from the drain to the sewer pipe is around 6 feet. Given that the top of the sewer pipe is only around 16 inches below the top of the concrete and the distance from the drain to the sewer pipe is around6 feet do I have enough depth for everything? Where does the vent go in all of this?