Fleck Water Softener Not As "Soft"

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Chopstick

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Hi All,

Specs:
- Fleck 5600SXT
- 1.5 cubic foot resin
- 10% CL resin
- 10x54 Tank
- The Drain line has a sticker with 2.7 GPM
- The Brine line has a sticker with 0.5 GPM
- System is about 2.5 years old

Environment:
- On city water
- 3 people in home (2 adults and a toddler)
- Estimated gal/day = 200
- No Pre or Post Filters

DF = Gal
VT = dF1b
CT = Fd
NT = 1
C = 36
H = 15
RS = rc
RC = 200
DO = 28
RT = 3:00
BW = 5
Bd = 60
RR = 5
BF = 8
FM = P0.7

Since the water softener was new, never had any issues with it.
When it was new and up until recently, when I would take a shower/wash hands/etc., I would get that "slick", "slimy" feeling, which I got used to.
Using a Hach 5B test, the water would instantly turn blue.

The past week or so, I've noticed I don't get that "slick", "slimy" feeling anymore.
I ran a water test and it did not turn instantly blue.
The Hach 5B test was more of a purple color.
It took 1 drop and turned blue.

I checked my brine tank and it was about 1/2 - 3/4 full.
I shaked it vigoursly to make sure there was no salt bridge and topped the salt off.
I ran a regen overnight and then waited till later in the evening to run another test on the cold water supply.
I wanted to make sure enough "new" water has been ran through the pipes.
Again, the Hach 5B test was the same. Purple color. 1 drop and it turned blue.

- Is this normal behavior of an aging system?
- Is this a sign of a problem or that a problem is coming?
- Is there anything I can do to restore the performance?
- Is there some sort of maintenance I should be doing to the system?

Thank you.
 

Reach4

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1 drop to turn blue is plenty good for most. Check the hardness out of the softener on the day when the softener has counted down and is in reserve.

You could start keeping longer term notes to figure out if you are actually using 12 pounds of salt for each regen.

How hard is your city water.? I understand H=15 in your settings. The city hardness can change.
 

Chopstick

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- Yes, I understand that 1 grain of hardness is technically considered soft water.

- I have not checked it when it was in Reserve Capacity. However, I did check the hardness when it was down to about 100 gallons left. It was 1 drop then as well. So it was 1 drop when down to about 100 gallons and 1 drop after a regen.

- Maybe stupid question, but how would I accurately measure if it's using 12lbs of salt for each regen? I normally check the salt level before and after regen and the salt level goes down a few inches, so I assume its using salt each time.

- I have not checked the city water hardness recently. According to the county report, it can range anywhere from 12-15. Just thinking here. Let's say it goes up higher to 16 or 18. Wouldn't that just mean that I would run out of capacity faster? That I would have to regen sooner than expected? It shouldn't affect the actual performance of the system, should it?

- I guess I'm wondering why did my system go from producing 0 grains hardness to now producing 1 grain hardness?
- If my resin was going bad/failing, would this be a sign? I wouldn't think so, I figured if my resin was starting to fail, I'd run out of capacity faster.
- Is it possible something in the system after the resin is dirty or has build-up? So that after the water is process, its going through something dirty that is causing the slight hardness?
- Is it possible I have a bad/leaky valve or something? Maybe a tiny amount of city water is leaking past the valve and mixing with the soft water?

I don't really know a ton about water softeners. I'm just throwing ideas out there. I guess I was hoping someone with more knowledge/experience would have seen something like this before and would have a few ideas to try.

Thank you for your help.
 

Reach4

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To watch the use, keep track of how often you regen. You know how many bags of salt you use for every x regens. This would be a long term test.

One more test.... try measuring the hardness on distilled water, which should be zero.
 

Bannerman

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I guess I'm wondering why did my system go from producing 0 grains hardness to now producing 1 grain hardness?
How long has the unit been in use?

Has it ever run out of salt, or has there been another reason it has missed a regeneration?

1.5 ft3 resin will typically possess a total 48,000 grains hardness removal capacity. Your capacity setting will cause the resin to be regenerated when 36,000 grains capacity has been depleted, thereby leaving 12,000 grains unused capacity which will reduce the amount of hardness leakage up to the point regeneration is to occur. Since 12 lbs salt is being appropriately utilized to regenerate that 36K grains capacity, some of the remaining 12K grains capacity will become slowly depleated which will result in hardness leakage to slowly increase over time. The predicted amount of hardness leakage expected for an 8 lb/cuft (12 lbs total) salt setting is 6 ppm. 1 GPG hardness equals 17.1 ppm so the amount of hardness leakage through your softener, although not particularly significant or a problem, is higher than expected.

If the unit has ever missed a regeneration due to an operational issue or was regenerated with an insufficient quantity of salt, or if the raw water hardness is higher than programmed so lower capacity is being restored than is being depleted, then hardness leakage can increase more rapidly and will usually remain higher than expected for an extended amount of time.

A 1X restoration cycle to restore the resin's total capacity, will require 30 lbs salt. To dissolve 30 lbs will require 10 gallons water, but as that quantity may cause the tank to overflow, a better option may be to use a bucket to add an additional 3 gallons water to the 4 gallons already within the tank. Wait 1-1.5 hours to allow additional salt to dissolve, then manually initiate a regeneration cycle. Once that cycle concludes, wait 1-1.5 hours to initiate a 2nd manual regeneration using the 12 lb setting as programmed. The 2nd cycle could be initiated directly before you depart for bed. Any water manually added to the brine tank, should be poured into the brine tank's brine well so as to keep the dry salt in storage near the top of the tank as dry as possible.
 
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Chopstick

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How long has the unit been in use?

About 2.5 years

Has it ever run out of salt, or has there been another reason it has missed a regeneration?

Yes, but only early on. When the system was new, I played around with the settings to get it dialed in. I'd say 3-4 times, it ran out of hardness removal capacity before a regen was triggered. It has not ran out and I have not had any issues with it since then with it's current settings. So I'd say the first 2-3 months of use, it ran out of hardness removal capacity and has been fine since then.

A 1X restoration cycle to restore the resin's total capacity, will require 30 lbs salt. To dissolve 30 lbs will require 10 gallons water, but as that quantity may cause the tank to overflow, a better option may be to use a bucket to add an additional 3 gallons water to the 4 gallons already within the tank. Wait 1-1.5 hours to allow additional salt to dissolve, then manually initiate a regeneration cycle. Once that cycle concludes, wait 1-1.5 hours to initiate a 2nd manual regeneration using the 12 lb setting as programmed. The 2nd cycle could be initiated directly before you depart for bed. Any water manually added to the brine tank, should be poured into the brine tank's brine well so as to keep the dry salt in storage near the top of the tank as dry as possible.

That sounds simple enough. I'll give that a shot and will report back.

Thank you for you help.
 

Chopstick

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Any water manually added to the brine tank, should be poured into the brine tank's brine well so as to keep the dry salt in storage near the top of the tank as dry as possible.

Just curious, what is the reasoning behind this?

I don't know if everybody does it this way, but I read it somewhere once, so this is how I do it.

In my brine tank, I fill it up about half way with salt. Then I will add the salt to just one side of the tank so that it creates a slope in the upper half. This way I can see the water level on left side and there is dry salt on the right side.

What is the difference if I just manually add the water to the wet side versus pouring it in to the brine well?

Thank you.
 

Bannerman

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I anticipate your brine tank equipped with a Brine Well (~4" diameter plastic tube down the inside of the tank). You can simply observe the height of the brine by removing the cap off the top of the brine well.

To reduce the frequency of checking the salt level, the brine tank is usually filled to the top with salt and then the salt level checked every 1-2 or 3 months, depending on the tank size, hardness level and your family water consumption. You could set a reminder in your phone's calendar. The usual recommendation is to top-up the tank with salt once enough salt has been consumed so liquid has began to cover the remaining salt.

The control valve will refill the brine tank with water, which will enter at the bottom of the brine well. This will cause only the salt at the bottom of the tank to become wet and dissolve while keeping the salt crystals above the liquid level dry.

When salt becomes wet, it will immediately begin to dissolve and if it permitted to dry out again, as will frequently occur by wetting the salt above the liquid level, salt will usually clump and bond together, often drying into a sold mass.

Since most brine tanks are equipped with tapered side walls, when a salt mass is formed, it will often become wedged between the tank walls which can prevent the mass from dropping down into the water below. This is called a salt bridge. Since no salt will be dissolved to create brine, subsequent regeneration cycles will not restore capacity, often bewildering owners since the tank appears from the top to continue to contain sufficient salt.

1677532968779.jpeg
 

Reach4

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What is the difference if I just manually add the water to the wet side versus pouring it in to the brine well?
That way will work nicely also. Now imagine describing that to somebody as an alternative? Saying to pour down the brine well will pretty much always work, and is more concise.
 

Chopstick

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Hey Guys,

Just wanted to send an update to what has transpired since my last post.

I performed the double regens as recommended.
Just in case, I added water to the brine well as directed even though I don't think it matters in my situation.
I did this in the morning and allowed it to sit the rest of the day.
That night at around 9pm, I started the first force regen.
When that completed, I pressed the regen button and allowed the regen to start at it's normal scheduled time (3am).
So it had roughly 4hrs of time for the salt to dissolve in the new water in the brine tank.

I waited till about 100 gals passed on the Fleck meter and performed a water test, still 1 grain.
I waited a few more days when the Fleck meter was getting closer to half way through. Again, still 1 grain.
I waited till there was about 200 gals left and still 1 grain.

I got frustrated at this point, so I decided to just do a full disassembly of the whole Fleck valve assembly.
Everything looked clean except for the valve area where the brine tank line connects in.
It didn't look clogged to me, but there was a brown "slime" or "sludge" look to the area.
I assume that's from the brine water being a bit dirty.
I did clean my brine tank about a year ago.
I took the injector and everything apart.
Cleaned and rinsed it all out.
I re-assembled everything back together with food grade silicone.

I ran a regen that night.
I waited about 100 gals to test the water and BAM, 0 grains of hardness. The water turned blue.
I waited till there was about 80 gals left on the meter and it was still 0 grains.

I recently went through a regen again and the cold water is still testing 0 grains.

At this point, I think the issue is fixed. I just don't know exactly what it was.
I assume maybe something in the brine valve/injector area maybe caused the issue because it was a bit dirty.
But I was not having brine water issues being sucked or filled that I could tell. I watched it during the first regen.
So no clue, but happy it seems to be fixed.

Another weird issue:
My gas hot water heater started leaking during all of this.
It was 17 years old, so it lasted me quite a while.
I replaced it with a new gas water heater of the same capacity.

Before all these issues started, with my old water heater, my hot water side would test 0 grains of hardness.
I could confirm it because when I shower or wash hands with hot water, it would have that slick/slimy feeling.

But with this new water heater, I am testing 1 grain of hardness.
When I wash my hands with cold water, I get the slick feeling. If I wash my hands with hot water, I don't get that slick feeling.
It's gone through at least 2 of the regens now, so it's had quite a bit of water go through it.

I'm not sure what it is about the new water heater that is causing that.
Maybe there are oils or some sort of residue from the manufacturing process that is causing it.
I don't know. Either way, it's not the end of the world.

Thank you to both of you guys so much for all your help.
 
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