Fleck 9000 Issue & Unusual Set-up?

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ClassicMuscle

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First off, thank you for any help that you are able to provide! I have never paid much attention to our water softener before outside of filling it, but it is now having issues and I am looking for help. We bought our house approximately 10 years ago. It is on a shared well with a neighbor. The house was a foreclosure on a fairly new house that had sat empty for 5 years, so we walked in with little background. The area is known to have extremely rusty water. Our neighbor's sprinkler system has turned his driveway red. I made the mistake of letting the wind blow spray from a sprinkler onto some landscape rock in front of the house for a couple of hours and they also are stained red.

The house has what I think is a fairly unique albeit most likely wrong approach to removing the rust in the water. From what I am finding it uses a Fleck 9000 dual tank softener which then flows into a Fleck 5600 single tank softener with a Turbulator. When the system is working it does remove the rust from our water, however it is at the cost of us having a lot of salt in our water and having it slowly damage faucets, etc. When we first moved in the system was using 17 bags of salt a month. I have turned it down significantly. We now seem to run just above the point of red staining and use that amount of salt in 3 months. From what I have found so far, here are the specs:

Fleck 9000
Model #: FC-150T-9000
Meter: 3/4"
Serial #: 201100
House is piped with 3/4" pex

Fleck 5600
Model #: 4FL-1040
Meter: 5600
Serial #: 201099
Turbulator

Now for the issue. The 9000 has begun to continuously dump water at full stream out the backwash drain. We only caught it because we started to see sputters in water pressure. I believe we were just about to temporarily run our well dry. The system is located in the basement which we never go into, so we never caught the fact that it was continuously dumping for who know how long. I tried cycling it through several cycles waiting between each step however the drain never stopped running at full speed. I have opened the bypass to stop the water for now. From what I am reading on here, the most common solution is to replace the vavle body/control unit with a 9100 SXT because these 9000's have known issues. Am I jumping the gun here or would that be a prudent direction?

Also, any thoughts on the overall setup here?

Thank you for your help!
 

ClassicMuscle

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I should also mention that I have tested our water with a test kit that I have for our pool that only goes to 2.0ppm and our water goes beyond the 2.0ppm threshold. I am not sure what it actually is at though and would love an accurate test recommendation.
 

Bannerman

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You will need a comprehensive lab test to accurately identify all water conditions. National Labs Watercheck is often recommended. The standard well test of the raw well water is usually sufficient.
http://watercheck.myshopify.com/?aff=5

Suggest bypassing the leaking system for now so as to not overwhelm your well.

Staging hardness removal using two softeners in the manner you describe, is one method to reduce the amount of salt consumed when hardness is excessive. In addition to the twin tank softener control valve requiring a rebuild, if it is also exposed to iron, it is likely the resin will be fouled with iron.

The lab test report will provide the information needed on the quantity of iron, hardness and other conditions to better determine appropriate treatment requirements.
 
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Water Guy

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^^^ an accurate comprehensive water test is crucial. the fleck 9000 is a great unit. the 9100 sxt is basically just a solid state version of the 9000, so no need. you're in need of seal/spacer and piston kit to solve the drain issue. your using way too much salt. order up the 9000 parts, get a water test and report back. I'm sure someone here will help you with the rest. this place is filled with knowledgeable, helpful guys.
 

Bannerman

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The brass body of the Fleck 9000 valves exposed to some water conditions often experience pitting issues which is why a polymer body 9100 is usually preferable. Suggest delaying spending money on the 9000 until the lab test is performed to identify whether a twin tank softener will be actually necessary.
 

ClassicMuscle

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Just ordered the test kit. I'll report back results when available. I will also tear into the 9000 to see how it looks.
 

ClassicMuscle

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Got it apart. The head of the piston link rod was so corroded that it became unattached from the piston itself causing the issue. The internals are covered with rust and gunk, but no other obvious broke items. If I order new piston assembly kits for both the upper and lower, that should get me up and running for now while we wait for the water analysis and figure out a long term plan, correct? Our sinks and toilets are already extremely orange from just today and we will be unable to do laundry until we get it back up and running. Thoughts?
 

Water Guy

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Oops, I am going to need a seal and spacer kit for each too, correct?
you can get both pistons, seal packs and a brine piston in one kit. look online about $150. if your other unit is working you can manually regen that a couple times in a row (about an hour and a half apart), then once a day or so. may give you some relief if it's working. if it's that bad might wanna pull the pistons and feel for pitting in the bores. if pitting then you need a new control head as bannerman suggested. there is also no guarantee the mineral isn't fouled, but you can replace the mineral too, I'd recommend the 9100 over the sxt. no circuit board means less to go wrong. maybe you should just wait till you test the water and get back.
 

ClassicMuscle

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Thanks for the advice! I will try a couple regens on the 5600 tonight to see if that helps buy us time. I ordered the test kit today, so unsure how long it will take to get it, get it back to them, and get the results.

Quick question regarding checking the bores. It looks like the piston rides inside of the spacers for the most part. So when you say inspect the bore, am I looking at the spacer bores themselves which I believe get replaced in the kit, the bore that the spacers ride in in the brass, or the bore at the very back of the housing? Just want to ensure that I am looking in the right place for know wear issues.

A few of my observations so far:
Top Piston:
* Head of the piston linkage is corroded badly so that the plastic coupling of the piston does not stay connected.
* The green coating on the first lobe (closest to the front) is almost entirely wore off. Coating on the other lobes is for the most part intact.
Bottom Piston:
* Coating on the 3rd lobe from the front is starting to come off but is mostly intact.
* Several spacers have quite a bit of rust and red goo in them.
Meter Housing:
* The inside of the meter housing has a lot of rust present in the housing and on the impellar.

Thank you for your help!!!
 

Water Guy

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in
Thanks for the advice! I will try a couple regens on the 5600 tonight to see if that helps buy us time. I ordered the test kit today, so unsure how long it will take to get it, get it back to them, and get the results.

Quick question regarding checking the bores. It looks like the piston rides inside of the spacers for the most part. So when you say inspect the bore, am I looking at the spacer bores themselves which I believe get replaced in the kit, the bore that the spacers ride in in the brass, or the bore at the very back of the housing? Just want to ensure that I am looking in the right place for know wear issues.

A few of my observations so far:
Top Piston:
* Head of the piston linkage is corroded badly so that the plastic coupling of the piston does not stay connected.
* The green coating on the first lobe (closest to the front) is almost entirely wore off. Coating on the other lobes is for the most part intact.
Bottom Piston:
* Coating on the 3rd lobe from the front is starting to come off but is mostly intact.
* Several spacers have quite a bit of rust and red goo in them.
Meter Housing:
* The inside of the meter housing has a lot of rust present in the housing and on the impellar.

Thank you for your help!!!
wouldn't let me edit that last post should have said 9000. yes, pull the seals and spacers. seal should be first and last in the stack, so don't miss the bottom seal. hope the meter is registering if not you can replace the dome which is around $50. the bores should be cleaned up (wiped clean) prior to reassembly and the new seals should be lubed, NOT with vaseline, but silicone grease. the alternative is a new control head for $600+. I suspect you have a lot of iron and a softener is really only meant to remove a couple parts and is not really the correct way to do it, but that's a great control head which allows for immediate regen, switching tanks (while one is in regen the other is in service) and it can still be used as a great softener. I'm getting ahead of myself however, test for iron levels and hardness and you can go from there.
 

Bannerman

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Pay closest attention to the centre section of the lower piston area for degradation of the brass. It is not necessarily a condition that will occur, but as that brass valve has had this issue with certain water conditions, best to be aware and closely inspect for degradation while it is dismantled, so you won't invest time and money making repairs to a valve that may require replacement in the near future.

Here is a link to a prior thread where this issue was discussed. https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/fleck-9000-rebuild-problem.56364/#post-414936
 
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Water Guy

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Pay closest attention to the centre section of the lower piston for degradation of the brass. It is not necessarily a condition that will occur, but as that brass valve has had this issue with certain water conditions, best to be aware and closely inspect for degradation while it is dismantled, so you won't invest time and money making repairs to a valve that may require replacement in the near future.

Here is a link to a prior thread where this issue was discussed. https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/fleck-9000-rebuild-problem.56364/#post-414936
good catch. especially with brush to clean up the bores.
 

ditttohead

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It is not unusual to find the center section in the lower piston area to be heavily eroded away. The 9100 is a great replacement to the 9000 and eliminates this problem.
 

ClassicMuscle

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Water test is supposed to arrive tomorrow. I'll let you know when I get the results back. Putting the 5600 in regen every night seems to be getting us by much better for now. I only had a chance to look quickly at the bottom bore. There is some wear/corrision, but not horrible. I will look closer over the next few nights. Again, thank you for the help!
 

ClassicMuscle

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As an FYI, still going to be a little bit for the water test results. Kit arrived last Wednesday. Spoke with the company to get a reduced shipping label and they stated that I should only ship on a Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday. So, last week was out. Was planning on doing it Monday, but the wife had an emergency at work which left me tied up with kids all day. Went to do it Tuesday and then realized it was a federal holiday on Wednesday which the company said not to ship the day before a holiday. That ruled out this week. So Monday I will do the test and ship. Should have results back 10 days after. Thank you for your patience and help!
 

ClassicMuscle

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So new hiccup in this problem. I am still waiting for the results of the water test. I have been regenerating the 5600 every night which has been working so far. Go into the basement today and find that the brine tank for the 5600 is completely full of water and now trickling out onto the floor. The head unit/valve body on the 5600 appears to be allowing a small amount of water to be continuously trickling into the brine tank. The 5600 is currently in Service mode. Thoughts?

On a side note, one of the members on here had mentioned that they had luck using the Hach 5-B total hardness test. I was curious so I ordered it and tried it. The kit says it is only good for hardness up to 30 gpg so I am unsure how accurate it is at our level, but I got 64 gpg. I will see what the other test shows and report back.
 

Reach4

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The kit says it is only good for hardness up to 30 gpg so I am unsure how accurate it is at our level, but I got 64 gpg. I will see what the other test shows and report back.
In that case, you would usually test two parts distilled water, and one part well water. Then multiply the number of drops by three to get hardness. So 21 drops would represent 63 grains.

With your high hardness, you will want to use a compensated hardness in your calculations for settings. See https://terrylove.com/forums/index....0-sxt-programming-settings.60651/#post-450189
 
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Bannerman

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The Hach 5B may be used for testing above 30 gpg, but the quantity of indicator solution needed will be high. A method to reduce using so much solution is to dilute the sample 50% with distilled water. 1 scoop of powder will continue to be used but each 1 drop of indicator will indicate 2 gpg hardness.
 

Water Pro

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So new hiccup in this problem. I am still waiting for the results of the water test. I have been regenerating the 5600 every night which has been working so far. Go into the basement today and find that the brine tank for the 5600 is completely full of water and now trickling out onto the floor. The head unit/valve body on the 5600 appears to be allowing a small amount of water to be continuously trickling into the brine tank. The 5600 is currently in Service mode. Thoughts?

On a side note, one of the members on here had mentioned that they had luck using the Hach 5-B total hardness test. I was curious so I ordered it and tried it. The kit says it is only good for hardness up to 30 gpg so I am unsure how accurate it is at our level, but I got 64 gpg. I will see what the other test shows and report back.
your fill likely isn't continuously adding water to the brine tank, as the float mechanism is designed in such a way as to prevent that. the blfc is likely clogged. it is behind the brass fitting attaching the brine line to the control head. remove the brine line from that fitting, unscrew the fitting, pull the retainer with some needle nose, tap out the (blfc) button in your palm and clean the brine line flow control button. note the direction it goes back in as it's designed to face a certain direction. shouldn't take but a minute. ps. do not let the detached brine line lay on the floor as it will syphon brine water from the tank and make quite a mess.
 
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