Fleck 5810SXT Custom Settings

[xa1200]

Hey guys,

Where would Slow Rinse be used in a custom setting configuration? Since my brine tank is out in the sun, I would prefer it to fill first before regeneration and not after.

1.5cuft water softener, .25gpm, C36, H10

RF (I believe this is brine fill) 16
SP (service position - pause) 2:00
BW (backwash) 5
BD (brine draw) 60
RR (rapid rinse) 5
LC (last cycle)

I believe the dF1B configuration has brine draw and slow rinse built into step #2 but it doesn't list the time for each.

 

[xa1200]

Actually I think I found my answer... slow rinse occurs when BD finishes drawing all the brine. I guess SR does not need to be programmed in.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

Where would Slow Rinse be used in a custom setting configuration? Since my brine tank is out in the sun, I would prefer it to fill first before regeneration and not after.

Slow rinse is part of brine draw. Often BD is 60 minutes. In the first 10 to 20 minutes of the BD cycle, the brine finishes being drawn out. The remainder of the BD time is the slow rinse. No valve changes position except the air check valve in the bottom of the brine tank closes to prevent drawing in air.

You may not need custom programming to get brine first. However that would require some hardware changes because VT=UFbd (Upflow Brine Draw First) would also switch to upflow brining. So maybe with the custom, you can get brine first with downflow.

 

[xa1200]

Slow rinse is part of brine draw. Often BD is 60 minutes. In the first 10 to 20 minutes of the BD cycle, the brine finishes being drawn out. The remainder of the BD time is the slow rinse. No valve changes position except the air check valve in the bottom of the brine tank closes to prevent drawing in air.

You may not need custom programming to get brine first. However that would require some hardware changes because VT=UFbd (Upflow Brine Draw First) would also switch to upflow brining. So maybe with the custom, you can get brine first with downflow.

Thank you Reach4! Really appreciate your help in this forum, as I'm sure many are too. I found a post you wrote a while back and was able to determine that SR was built into BD cycle.

For those who are interested in custom settings, you will have to enter the master programming mode and select O-df (Other Downflow) during the RF screen and set your custom regeneration cycle and time. This is only applicable to down flow setup. There are many other configurations depending on your needs.

 

[Bannerman]

you will have to enter the master programming mode and select O-df (Other Downflow) during the RF screen

It remains odd why DownFlow - brine fill first is not a regular choice listed with UpFlow-bff since that is a common setting when using potassium chloride as a regenerant instead of sodium chloride.

 

[xa1200]

It remains odd why DownFlow - brine fill first is not a regular choice listed with UpFlow-bff since that is a common setting when using potassium chloride as a regenerant instead of sodium chloride.

Honestly, this is all really new to me. I believe there was post here a while back mentioning the programming parameters for O-dF for the 5600 so I decided to follow the post. Now that I think about it, you are right because dFFF is a setting for Downflow Fill First (which is exactly what I'm doing with O-dF now that I'm more familiar with all these settings).

Edit: Please use dFFF as the setting for Downflow Fill First instead of the custom O-dF as they both perform similar, unless you want to program more steps in like double BW.

 

[Reach4]

Honestly, this is all really new to me. I believe there was post here a while back mentioning the programming parameters for O-dF for the 5600 so I decided to follow the post. Now that I think about it, you are right because dFFF is a setting for Downflow Fill First (which is exactly what I'm doing with O-dF now that I'm more familiar with all these settings).

Edit: Please use dFFF as the setting for Downflow Fill First instead of the custom O-dF as they both perform similar, unless you want to program more steps in...

These are the choices shown in the 5810SXT manual. If dFFF is a choice you see, then it would seem the manual is deficient, or they know of some problem with the dFFF.

 

[xa1200]

These are the choices shown in the 5810SXT manual. If dFFF is a choice you see, then it would seem the manual is deficient, or they know of some problem with the dFFF.
View attachment 61952

Hey Reach4, I uploaded the parameters for the manual I have for the 5810 & 5812 that was probably updated. I'm running on version 3.7

 

[Reach4]

Hey Reach4, I uploaded the parameters for the manual I have for the 5810 & 5812 that was probably updated. I'm running on version 3.7

Nice. My manual was 44019 REV G and my SV (software version) is 3.0

I just downloaded rev J. Too bad I cannot download newer firmware.

 

[Bannerman]

I do not see dFFF in the 5810SXT manual I downloaded. I just mentioned I find it odd that it isn't listed in the regular VT selections since uFFF is a standard choice without choosing 'Other'. Because dF is more common than uF, it would make sense dFFF would be an obvious standard choice for those using potassium chloride without forcing them to enter the 'Other' hidden settings.

 

[xa1200]

I currently have 44288 REV A

Same as the link below:

https://www.pentair.com/content/dam...als/fleck/44019-fleck-5810-5812sxt-manual.pdf

 

[Reach4]

I currently have 44288 REV A

Look at the very last line in the document.

 

[Reach4]

One more thought. If you have RT=2:00 for brine last, you might select RT= midnight (12:00 AM) for a similar time when using brine first. I am not sure of that, however. Is it possible they compensate so that RT is the start of the backwash? I doubt that. Let us know what you find out.

The softener is in service during brine fill. It is in bypass during backwash, brine draw, fast rinse.

Also, protect the 5810sxt with a cover to protect against UV. UV protect the tank if it is not painted. Protect your plastic pipes with paint or wrap.

 

[xa1200]

One more thought. If you have RT=2:00 for brine last, you might select RT= midnight (12:00 AM) for a similar time when using brine first. I am not sure of that, however. Is it possible they compensate so that RT is the start of the backwash? I doubt that. Let us know what you find out.

The softener is in service during brine fill. It is in bypass during backwash, brine draw, fast rinse.

Also, protect the 5810sxt with a cover to protect against UV. UV protect the tank if it is not painted. Protect your plastic pipes with paint or wrap.

I should have another regeneration in a few days so I will let you know if RT compensates or not, currently it is set to 12:30AM.

I got the environmental cover for the valve and used pipe foam to cover the uponor pipes. Hopefully will have something for shading but i'm currently using some plywood to cover it. It's located on the side of my house and no one goes back there I did not need it to be aesthetic pleasing.

Currently goal is trying to figure out how I can get the slippery feeling back. It was initially there before the first regeneration. Maybe I need to increase the salt intake.

 

[Bannerman]

Currently goal is trying to figure out how I can get the slippery feeling back. It was initially there before the first regeneration. Maybe I need to increase the salt intake.

Before the 1st regeneration, the resin capacity (48000 grains) was 100% available and utilized to remove hardness.

If for some reason, additional capacity had been consumed compared to the amount regenerated, then not all 100% of the resin will have been 'topped-up' so there now will be less capacity available so some hardness may leak through.

Possible reasons for less capacity regenerated than consumed include:

• Actual Water hardness is higher than programmed. Hardness programmed needs to be accurately determined by testing at your actual location. Municipalities will typically state an average hardness level from all sources whereas your actual hardness maybe higher or lower than average. Because municipal water is usually obtained from multiple sources, it is advisable to program the softener for 2-3gpg higher than the test result to anticipate occasions when hardness may be higher than usual.
• Insufficient hardness compensation. Iron and manganese in private well water will consume softener capacity in addition to hardness. There is also a hardness compensation factor to factor additional capacity consumption from elements in the water not indicated by a hardness test.
• Insufficient water and or salt in the brine tank prior to the 1st regeneration cycle when programmed for bF1b or bf2b. If your initial regeneration occured prior to programming bFFF, then water was not automatically added to the brine tank before regeneration. The appropriate quantity or a greater amount would have been needed to be manually added to prepare sufficient brine prior to the 1st regeneration.

To regenerate additional capacity that may have been consumed, perform 1 additional manual regeneration directly following this next automatic cycle.

 

[xa1200]

Before the 1st regeneration, the resin capacity (48000 grains) was 100% available and utilized to remove hardness.

If for some reason, additional capacity had been consumed compared to the amount regenerated, then not all 100% of the resin will have been 'topped-up' so there now will be less capacity available so some hardness may leak through.

Possible reasons for less capacity regenerated than consumed include:

• Actual Water hardness is higher than programmed. Hardness programmed needs to be accurately determined by testing at your actual location. Municipalities will typically state an average hardness level from all sources whereas your actual hardness maybe higher or lower than average. Because municipal water is usually obtained from multiple sources, it is advisable to program the softener for 2-3gpg higher than the test result to anticipate occasions when hardness may be higher than usual.
• Insufficient hardness compensation. Iron and manganese in private well water will consume softener capacity in addition to hardness. There is also a hardness compensation factor to factor additional capacity consumption from elements in the water not indicated by a hardness test.
• Insufficient water and or salt in the brine tank prior to the 1st regeneration cycle when programmed for bF1b or bf2b. If your initial regeneration occured prior to programming bFFF, then water was not automatically added to the brine tank before regeneration. The appropriate quantity or a greater amount would have been needed to be manually added to prepare sufficient brine prior to the 1st regeneration.

To regenerate additional capacity that may have been consumed, perform 1 additional manual regeneration directly following this next automatic cycle.

We're on city water so 0 iron and my water was lab tested to be 136.8ppm or 8 gpg. The system was set for 10gpg of hardness.

Prior to the first regeneration cycle, I poured in 5 gallons of water into the brine (1 extra in case) - This was programmed for bf2b.

2 days after realizing that it was not as soft as before, I initiated the second regeneration for C36, BF 16. The water felt the same as the first regeneration.

Will probably bump to C40 just to test but I'm getting used to C36... might change it back after just to be more "environmentally friendly"

 

[Bannerman]

Have you actually tested the hardness with a test kit? 'Feel' is not a reliable method to verify.

If your home has not had a softener installed previously, then any mineral scale that has accumulated within the plumbing lines will begin to be dissolved by the softened water. When scale is dissolved back into the water, it will raise the hardness amount of the soft water until all of the scale has been totally dissolved and eliminated. Elimination may take days, weeks, months or even longer, depending on the amount of accumulated minerals present.

The greatest amount of scaling will occur within the water heater. If you operate a tank type heater, elimination of scale can sometimes be accelerated by regularly flushing debris through the tank's drain fitting near the bottom of the tank.

Raising the capacity setting does nothing internally within the softener, but will only increase the calculation of capacity to be consumed before regeneration will occur. To regenerate 40K grains usable capacity in 1.5 ft3 of resin will require about 16 lbs salt.

 

[xa1200]

Have you actually tested the hardness with a test kit? 'Feel' is not a reliable method to verify.

If your home has not had a softener installed previously, then any mineral scale that has accumulated within the plumbing lines will begin to be dissolved by the softened water. When scale is dissolved back into the water, it will raise the hardness amount of the soft water until all of the scale has been totally dissolved and eliminated. Elimination may take days, weeks, months or even longer, depending on the amount of accumulated minerals present.

The greatest amount of scaling will occur within the water heater. If you operate a tank type heater, elimination of scale can sometimes be accelerated by regularly flushing debris through the tank's hose fitting near the bottom of the tank.

Hey Bannerman,

I totally agree about the "feel." I know that the water is soft, it's just not slippery soft as before. Before the first regeneration, it was slippery soft for almost 2 weeks. After regeneration, we can definitely "feel" the difference but it didn't justify the cost to spend on the Hach 3B and I can live without knowing.

I've read about the scaling in pipes here on some old threads but how do we explain the "slippery soft" feeling initially for the first 2 weeks? We did not change any soap and everyone in the household felt the difference.

I don't mind the current softness just intrigued. The resin operating at full capacity when new probably explains it though since I'm using a salt efficient setting.

 

[Bannerman]

If you haven't lived with soft water previously, it is a totally new experience. Most people will quickly become accustomed to the feel as it becomes the 'new normal'.

We have been using a softener since 1998. We soon became accustomed to the feel and stopped noticing, but we sure do notice if there is a problem with the softener, or when away from home and showering elsewhere.

Any scale accumulation in the plumbing and WH will not necessarily dissolve immediately in the presence of soft water, but will begin to soften and dissolve over time.

The chart below shows various capacities to be regenerated depending on the salt quantity. Follow the leftmost column down to 1.5 ft3 and scan right to each capacity amount. The salt amount in lbs per ft3 is indicated at the top of each column whereas hardness leakage and hardness removal efficiency are shown at the bottom of each column.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/resin-chart-jpg.53316/

ps: Was the Capacity setting 36 prior to the 1st regeneration? Post #16 mentions C=36, BF 16 when discussing the 2nd regeneration cycle.

 

[xa1200]

The chart below shows various capacities to be regenerated depending on the salt quantity. Follow the leftmost column down to 1.5 ft3 and scan right to each capacity amount. The salt amount in lbs per ft3 is indicated at the top of each column whereas hardness leakage and hardness removal efficiency are shown at the bottom of each column.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/resin-chart-jpg.53316/

ps: Was the Capacity setting 36 prior to the 1st regeneration? Post #16 mentions C=36, BF 16 when discussing the 2nd regeneration cycle.

Yes, C was always 36 & BF 16. Thanks I utilized that chart to determine my C preference.

It's possible that we may have accustomed to it. Prior to the first regeneration, when washing my hands, it felt like the soap was never completely rinsed off, leaving it to feeling as if it was never clean (as in I may still have soap on my skin) and slippery.

Now when I was my hands with the same soap, I can tell when the soap has been washed off due to friction when rubbing my hands together... no slip.

But I definitely can feel that the soft water and my skin is moist, which I absolutely love!