Fleck 5600SXT: replacement of Econominder head and change in resin tank size

Users who are viewing this thread

Ed_D

New Member
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Chicagoland
Hello,

I appreciate the help of the many on this forum in terms of supporting people like me (somewhat clueless homeowner) and our water softener questions. I've gone through many of the posts and I think I have a good idea of what I need to do but would like a second (or third, or fourth, etc.) opinion.

I moved into a 4BR/4BR home with a 5600 Econominder on a 9x48" tank (1.5 cu. ft). The capacity wheel on the Econominder indicates it was set up at a 24,000 grain capacity, which I felt was too small for the house.

Initially, I replaced the resin tank with a 12x48 and replaced the resin with 2 cu. ft of Purolite C-100. I also replaced the injector (went from a #1 to a #2), the BLFC (went to a 1.0) and the DLFC (went from a 2.4 to a 3.5 GPM). I based this off my reading of the installation manuals from Pentair. What I've found is that I run out of soft water early. I have the capacity set at 1200 gallons and the salt load at 32 lbs.

The reason I ended up deciding to replace the Econominder with the SXT is two-fold: First, I suspect that there's an issue with the Econominder. Despite the high salt load, it doesn't seem to use that much salt. I thought there might be an issue with the brine line itself, but I've replaced the O-rings, ferrules and compression washers and still see an issue. The second reason is that I wanted a bit more control of settings that SXT allows.

The details:

  • I’m on city water and per Hatch 5B, unsoftened water tests at 28gpg. City water test reports show 0ppm of Iron.
  • The home has 4 full baths, 2 adults, 2 children live in the home
  • We average between 3300 and 4300 gallons per month of water consumption (checked in the Winter to cancel out outside (unsoftened) water usage.

My thoughts on programming (thank you for everyone who has contributed this data). I'm looking for comments, suggestions, changes:

System info (not programmed)
salt lb/cuft = 6.75 ; A choice ( efficiency vs capacity)
BLFC = 0.5 ; Brine Refill rate GPM
cubic ft resin = 2 ; ft3 resin = (nominal grains)/32,000
Raw hardness = 20 ; including any compensation
People = 4 ; gallons affects reserve calc
Estimated gal/day = 240; 60 gal per person typical calc (I kept this the same even though the consumption via the water bill indicates 110-143 gallons/day)
Estimated days/regen =12.24 ; Computed days ignoring reserve

Fleck 5600SXT Settings:
DF = Gal ; Units
VT = dF1b ; Downflw/Upflw, Single Backwash
CT = Fd ; Meter Delayed regen trigger
NT = 1 ; Number of tanks
C = 43.1 ; capacity in 1000 grains
H = 28 ; Hardness

RS = rc ; rc says use gallons vs percent
RC = 180 ; Reserve capacity gallons
DO = 28 ; Day Override (28 if no iron)
RT = 2:00 ; Regen time (default 2 AM)
BW = 5 ; Backwash (minutes)
Bd = 60 ; Brine draw minutes
RR = 5 ; Rapid Rinse minutes
BF = 9 ; Brine fill minutes
FM = t1.0 (confirmed)

I'm also hoping that someone can help with the following question:

1. As noted above, I changed the injector, BLFC and DLFC on the Econominder when I upsized the resin tank. Currently, the SXT is configured with a #1 injector and a 2.0GPM DLFC. I'm assuming that I need to change these on the SXT or does the programming compensate? I don't see a clear answer in the installation guide. Do I need to do anything, transfer the injector, BLFC and DLFC, or is there a different set of injector, BLFC, DLFC needed for the SXT? I'm going to be installing the SXT on the 12x48 tank, if that's not clear.

Thank you for your help!

Ed
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
35,143
Reaction score
3,587
Points
113
Location
IL
A 9x48 tank will have 1 cuft of resin. A 12x52 will have 2 cuft of resin. I suspect your new tank is 52 inch high.

A 12 inch tank needs a 3.5 gpm DLFC.

Your "FM = t1.0 (confirmed)" does not seem right for a 5600sxt.
The BLFC can be various sizes. Usually a 5600sxt comes with a 0.5 gpm BLFC, but you can use a 0.25, or maybe even a 0.125.

To compute BF, it is important to know the BLFC number.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
35,143
Reaction score
3,587
Points
113
Location
IL
Making some assumptions, including 0.5gpm BLFC
System info (not programmed)
salt lb/cuft = 7.5 ; A choice ( efficiency vs capacity)
BLFC = 0.5 ; Brine Refill rate GPM
cubic ft resin = 2 ; ft3 resin = (nominal grains)/32,000
Compensated hardness = 28 ; including any compensation
People = 4 ; gallons affects reserve calc
Estimated gal/day = 240 ; 60 gal per person typical calc
Estimated days/regen = 6.86 ; Computed days including reserve

Fleck 5600SXT Settings:
DF = Gal ; Units
VT = dF1b ; Downflw/, Single Backwash, black cam
CT = Fd ; Meter Delayed regen trigger
NT = 1 ; Number of tanks
C = 46 ; capacity in 1000 grains (rounded down)
H = 28 ; Hardness-- compensate if needed
RS = rc ; rc says use gallons vs percent
RC = 240 ; Reserve capacity gallons
DO = 30 ; Day Override (28 if no iron)
RT = 2:00 ; Regen time (default 2 AM)
BW = 5 ; Backwash (minutes)
Bd = 60 ; Brine draw minutes
RR = 5 ; Rapid Rinse minutes
BF = 10 ; Brine fill minutes
FM = t0.7 ; https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/img_fleck5600sxt_flow-png.31592/

The less salt per cubic ft, the more salt efficient, but more hardness breakthrough.
Revised based on number from https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/help-for-programming-fleck-5810.82673/#post-595983
BLFC = 0.5
cubic ft resin = 2

Alternative C and BF pairs:
lb/cuft ; C= ; BF=
5.250 ; 39.2 ; 7
6.000 ; 42.0 ; 8
6.750 ; 44.5 ; 9
7.500 ; 46.6 ; 10 (used above)
8.250 ; 48.6 ; 11
9.000 ; 50.3 ; 12

If you find the BLFC number is less than 0.50, say so. That BLFC would have a "50" molded into the button opposite the F. Don't put it in backwards.
 
Last edited:

Ed_D

New Member
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Chicagoland
Thank you for the quick and detailed reply, Reach4.

To answer your questions:

A 9x48 tank will have 1 cuft of resin. A 12x52 will have 2 cuft of resin. I suspect your new tank is 52 inch high.

The new resin tank is a Clack 1248. I chose the same height tank as the original so that I would not have to re-sweat the copper fittings going into the bypass valve. I realize a 12x48 isn't technically supposed to have 2 cu. ft. of resin and if I'm being honest, I probably spilled enough of the resin to be in the range of 1.88 cu. ft. Just the same, I did install a top basket to prevent resin loss.

Your "FM = t1.0 (confirmed)" does not seem right for a 5600sxt.

I may wrong on the above; please let me know. The supply lines into the brass bypass valve behind the softener/flow meter are 1". I measured the inlet into the turbine / outlet on the flow meter attached to the SXT and they measure ID of .840" and an OD of 1.112"

The BLFC can be various sizes. Usually a 5600sxt comes with a 0.5 gpm BLFC, but you can use a 0.25, or maybe even a 0.125.

I confirmed that the BLFC installed in the SXT is 0.50. Thanks for the reminder on proper re-installation.

Thanks Again for the programming details and appreciate any further tips.

Ed
 

Ed_D

New Member
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Chicagoland
Oh, and one other question: do I need to change the injector? Currently a #1 installed in the SXT
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
35,143
Reaction score
3,587
Points
113
Location
IL
#1 is fine and compatible with the 60 minute brine draw. I would prefer #0 and raise the BD some, but #1 is not a problem.

You can watch the capacity remaining number. Run 10 or 20 gallons by filling and dumping 5 gallon buckets. Is the rate correct? I have not heard of using a T1 on a 5600sxt. That does not mean it does not happen, and I know there is a setting. But only the 3/4 made it to page 28 of rev E service manual. I don't have a turbine to compare measurements with. Maybe somebody else will know. But measuring the metering will be good. I would guess that if you use the setting that you have, the countdown test would be slow.

Here are computed C and BD pairs for 1.88 cuft of resin:
BLFC = 0.5
cubic ft resin = 1.88

Alternative C and BF pairs:
lb/cuft ; C= ; BF=
4.787 ; 35.1 ; 6
5.585 ; 38.1 ; 7
6.383 ; 40.7 ; 8 #good choice using a little less salt
7.181 ; 43.0 ; 9 #good choice
7.979 ; 45.0 ; 10 # good choice softer
8.777 ; 46.8 ; 11
 

Ed_D

New Member
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Chicagoland
Thanks again, Reach4.

I'm probably a week and a half out from swapping the control heads but I'll report back after with the 'bucket test' to validate the accurate decrement of the remaining capacity.

Ed
 

Ed_D

New Member
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Chicagoland
Hi All,

I was able to replace the Econominder with the SXT control head this weekend. A few comments and a question:

As noted by Reach 4, I changed out the DLFC to the 3.5GPM required for a 12" diameter tank, kept the BLFC at 0.5 and the #1 injector. I ended up keeping the FM = t0.7 as the distributor tube is 3/4" and regardless of the measurements at the flow meter, flow through the softener is going to be constrained by the distributor tube. Checking with a 5 gallon bucket confirms that the remaining capacity is decrementing properly.

My question: are there instructions / details for setting the brine tank safety float? I noticed that during the brine draw, I ran out of brine about 30 minutes into the 60 minute cycle. The brine level in my tank is well below the overflow nipple. I'm guessing that the brine fill will only fill to the lesser amount of time programmed (in my case, 10 minutes) or when the safety float engages. If I try and increase the height of the float, the shaft attached to the float (with the 2 rubber washers that adjust the float level) is much too long (it would interfere with the cover on the brine well.

I suspect that part of my problem was that I was running out to brine and insufficiently cleaning the resin, which resulted in low salt consumption and early breakthrough of hard water.

Thanks,

Ed
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
35,143
Reaction score
3,587
Points
113
Location
IL
With BF=10, and a white#1 injector, I would expect the brine to be drawn out in about 16 minutes. I would open the cover and check the color of the injector. I would clean the injector screen. And if this has been in service for a while, I might pull the 2-piece injector and clean it. If it has iron deposits, I would soak in a strong solution of Iron Out.

If you find a violet, rather than white, injector, then 30 minutes would be about the expected draw time.

If the system were to continue to take 30 minutes to draw the brine, I would increase BD to about 105 minutes. But if you have the white, I expect the cleaning will shorten the time for the brine to all get drawn.

Now if you had extra water in the tank to get started, then that 30 minutes could have been a one-time thing.

I think it is perfectly fine to cut the extra length of the float rod to miss the cover on the brine well.
 

Ed_D

New Member
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Chicagoland
Thanks, Reach 4.

I'll confirm the injector but it is labeled as having a #1 injector. Since the control head is new, I'm going to be shocked if it or the screen show deposits.

I should add that there was a significant amount of brine already in the tank at the time that I changed the meter, so I'm guessing that the ~30 min brine draw was more a function of the amount of brine in the tank plus the added water during the brine fill.

I see from your reply that it's not necessary that the softener draw brine over the entire brine draw time period. My assumption was that given a 60 minute brine draw time and 0.5gpm BLFC, I would need to have on the order of ~30 gallons of brine ensure uninterrupted brine draw. Looking at it in terms of the brine fill (set to 10 mins), the amount flowing into the brine tank would be closer to 5 gallons (10 mins x 0.5gpm).

Thinking about the safety float, would it be reasonable to set the float height after the brine fill and then set at a height slightly higher than the water level such that the float valve doesn't shut off water?
 
Last edited:

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
35,143
Reaction score
3,587
Points
113
Location
IL
Good. Initial water higher than what it refills to would explain things. Yes, if new, don't bother checking the injector or screen.

That #1 injector is supposed to draw about 0.32 gpm at 40 psi in.

Make sure the float will be able to rise and cut off flow without the rod hitting the cap on the brine well. You don't need to set the float so low that it is barely above the normal fill level. It is there to make sure that you don't overflow. Plus as the water takes on salt, it expands by about 15%.

Interesting oddity you might enjoy: expect the water level in the brine well to be higher than the level of the brine in the main part of the tank. That is because the saturated brine is heavier. The water in the brine well does not have as much salt.
 

Ed_D

New Member
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Chicagoland
Thanks Reach 4. I've been monitoring the performance of the softener through it's first demand-based regeneration since installation of the SXT. Measured the hardness using Hatch 5B and post regeneration last night and it's at 1 drop of reagent. I'll check again when close to regenerating/remaining capacity is low.

I see what you mean about the level of the brine in the safety float housing vs. the main brine well. Never noticed that. Anyway I'm still adjusting the brine float under the logic that the safety float is there to prevent overflow through the overflow tube and if set too low will limit the amount of brine available for brine draw and therefore cause an incomplete regeneration. I think that was the main reason for early hard water breakthrough previously. It appears that the float shaft has never been sized (cut). Not surprising when changing the resin tank side that the brine level would have to be adjusted.

Anyway, I'll monitor through another regen and report and then call it done.

Thank you

Ed
 

Ed_D

New Member
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Chicagoland
Just wanted to add a final post to this thread. The softener has run through several regenerations at this point and I've measured water hardness at several points in time/remaining capacity, including times when it was in reserve capacity. Every time it has measured 1GPG. (1 drop of reagent using the Hatch 5B). Before, this was never the case and so I consider it a success.

In my case, I think the root cause to my issues was the float setting in the brine well. Whoever installed the original softener never adjusted the brine float / cut the shaft of the float to size. As a result the amount of brine created was limited by the low float level and that subsequently affected the amount of brine draw. There was never enough brine injected into the resin tank to fully regenerate and hence capacity suffered. This was made worse when I up sized the resin tank.

Unlike the control head settings which are well documented, I never was able to find a definitive answer as to how high the brine level should be set. In the end, I went with 'a little higher than half the height of the brine tank (and below the overflow). This seems to work very well (as I said above, I haven't run out of soft water).

I mention all of this as a suggestion to those who may have the same issue as me in the future: check the brine level.

Reach4: Your help was tremendous. Thank you.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
35,143
Reaction score
3,587
Points
113
Location
IL
Glad it works. The safety float should not be the limiting factor on brine fill. It is only a backup if something else fails, and the float valve prevents the tank from overflowing.
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks