Fleck 5600 sxt - Lost Post

dogeatdog

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Hello again. For whatever reason, my post got removed from the system. Well, I will try to repeat what I had said earlier:

Current settings (2 in the house, city water, and hardness is at 16-18 per city):

DF Gal ; Units
VT dF1b ; Downflw/Upflw, Single Backwash
CT Fd ; Meter Delayed regen trigger
NT 1 ; Number of tanks
C 32
H 20 ; Hardness-- compensate if needed
RS RC
RC 200 ; Reserve Capacity Gallons
DO 14
RT 2:00 ; Regen time (default 2 AM)
BW 10 ; Backwash (minutes)
Bd 60 ; Brine draw minutes
RR 10 ; Rapid Rinse minutes
BF 6 ; Brine fill minutes
FM t0.7 ; flow meter

Even after using separate regen with 8 oz resin cleaner, there is no change in the hardness.

Thank you, Dave
 

Reach4

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Well, I will try to repeat what I had said earlier:
You have 3 of these so far.

1. How old is the resin?

2. 10x54 inch tank?

3. How long was it working well for you for softening?

4. How do you measure the residual hardness? I suggest the Hach 5-B test kit.
5. Are you sure you have a turbine and not a paddlewheel?
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Bannerman

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For whatever reason, my post got removed from the system.
You are a new forum member. Initial threads started by new members, are usually not shown until first reviewed and OK'd by a forum staff member.

I suspect your softener is equipped with 1 cubic foot resin (32,000 grains total hardness reduction capacity), usually installed within a 9" X 48" media tank. If so, the 32K Capacity setting would be an incorrect setting choice as it would result in highly inefficient and wasteful salt usage as 20 lbs salt would be required each cycle to regenerate that amount of Capacity.

Assuming your unit is equipped with the usual 0.5 GPM BLFC (brine line flow control, normally specified on a label located close to the brine tube fitting), the current 6-Minute Brine Fill setting, will result in 9 lbs salt being dissolved each cycle. Although 8 lbs salt is sufficient to regenerate 24,000 grains Capacity (C 24), 1 ft3 softener's are commonly pre-programmed with 24,000 grain Capacity and 9 lbs salt settings. While some might consider the additional 1 lb salt to be wasted and less efficient, that 1 lb additional salt will result in higher quality soft water by limiting hardness leakage to ~3-4 ppm, instead of the usual 6 ppm leakage resulting from repeated regeneration with 8 lbs salt.
 

dogeatdog

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Hello,

This is for Reach4:

The resin was replaced on January 1 of 2023 with 10% Crosslink Premium Grade Water Softening Resin, Aquatrol 1 CuFt × 1. The system is using the turbine. Everything was working fine until about a year ago, and I have not been able to get it working as it was prior. Everything was pulled apart and checked/cleaned.

This is for Banerman:

These were my "original" settings that worked for 10 years with no issue and were working fine with the new resin:

DF = Gal ; Units

VT = dF1b ; Downflw/Upflw, Single Backwash

CT = Fd ; Meter Delayed regen trigger

NT = 1 ; Number of tanks

C = 23

H = 16 ; Hardness-- compensate if needed

RS = RC

RC = 200 ; Reserve capacity gallons

DO = 28

RT = 2:00 ; Regen time (default 2 AM)

B1 (BW) = 5 ; Backwash (minutes)

Bd = 60 ; Brine draw minutes

B2 (RR) = 5 ; Rapid Rinse minutes

BF = 5 ; Brine fill minutes

FM = t0.7 ; flow meter

I can put it back to the "original" settings, but this was not working. I am at a loss at this point.
 

Reach4

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2. 10x54 inch tank? So no, 48x9 inch tank.

With that, I would return to C=23 and H=20.

3. How long was it working well for you for softening? REVISED question to How long was it working for for you after swapping resin? I expect for a couple regenerations?
Could you have a clogged injector or injector screen?

4. How do you measure the residual hardness? I suggest the Hach 5-B test kit.

One motivation at this point is to see if the water gets softer a day after a regen, or if it stays hard. This info will help characterize your symptoms. When you check hardness of the softened water, use the cold, because the tank water heater will delay the passage of water from the softener to the faucet.

These were my "original" settings that worked for 10 years with no issue and were working fine with the new resin:
Why did you then change the settings. You increased C and reduced H in post #1 vs post #4 numbers, which both cause you to regenerate less frequently. The number of gallons before a regen is scheduled is C/H-R where R is the reserve gallons.

How different was the appearance/feel of your old removed resin vs the new resin?
 

dogeatdog

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Yes, it is a 9x48 tank. I will revert back to C=23 and H=20.

The softener was working fine until we had a hurricane/flood come, and the system was off or running for an unknown period of time. I am sure there were a couple of times when there was no salt in the brine tank, and maybe it was not cleaning the resin properly. This is the reason why I got the resin restore stuff that I've been trying to use with no success either.

The original resin that was in there was in there for seven years, but since we are on city water with high chlorine content, I was told to use the stuff that I purchased, which was supposed to hold up better.

The Hatch hardness test is on order since I can't find it anywhere local. The system has been checked, all of the screens and injectors look perfect.
 

Reach4

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I had been thinking the hurricane event might have stirred up extra sediment, that could have made it into your injector assembly. Seemed worth checking, and you already did that.

There is a method of catching up on under-regenerating. Pour an extra 2 gallons of water into the brine tank. Wait an hour or more. Start an immediate regen. When the brine in the brine tank is sucked down most of the way (the lowest is about the middle of the check valve), throw the bypass into bypass for maybe 2 hours. That lets the brine sit with the salt for a while. Then put the bypass back into normal position. Do another regen.

This thread gets into cleaning the 2-piece injector (nozzle and throat) and the screen. Somebody else with bad softening might find this of use.


Note that the 5600 and 5600sxt are the same for the injector assembly, so the video is relevant even tho it shows a different softener valve.
 
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Bannerman

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I am sure there were a couple of times when there was no salt in the brine tank,
Whenever a regeneration cycle is performed while there is insufficient salt within the brine tank, then there will be a reduced amount of capacity regenerated. Because none or only a portion of the 23K grains capacity that was to be regenerated, was actually restored, then some or all of the remaining 9,000 grains (32,000 - 23,000) grains of resin capacity, will have also become depleted. Because the system is programmed to use sufficient salt to regenerate 23k grains capacity each cycle, the bulk of the additional 9K grains of potential additional capacity will continue to not be regenerated, thereby resulting in an increased amount of hardness leakage passing through the resin bed which inturn, will reduce the quality of softened water.

To regenerate all 32,000 grains of resin capacity, a 1X restorative regeneration with 20 lbs salt will be needed. Your 5-minute brine fill setting will cause 2.5 gallons water to enter the brine tank, which will result in 7.5 lbs salt to become dissolved. Since 20 lbs salt is needed to regenerate 100% of the resin's capacity, then an additional 4.2 gallons of water will need to be added (= 2.5 + 4.2) to the brine tank so as to cause 20 lbs salt to be dissolved before a manual regeneration is performed.

Because 6.7 gallons within the brine tank may cause an overflow, and because 1X regeneration with that much brine is likely to result in salty water following that restorative cycle, suggest instead to use a bucket to add only an additional 2 gallons water into the brine tank, then wait ~1 hour to allow additional salt to dissolve, then perform the 1st manual regeneration. FYI, each gallon = 3 lbs so 2.5 + 2.0 gallons = 13.5 lbs salt.

Once the 1st manual regeneration has concluded, wait ~1 hour and then initiate a 2nd manual regeneration using only the 2.5 gallons (= 7.5 lbs salt) that entered the brine tank automatically at the end of of the 1st regeneration cycle. Between both back-to-back regeneration cycles, 21 lbs salt will have been utilized, which will be sufficient to regenerate 100 % of the resin's capacity, which should then result in a noticable ongoing improvement in soft water quality due to a substantial reduction in hardness leakage passing through the resin bed. Of course, since a tank type water heater will initially contain a large quantity of lower quality soft water, improvement in the quality of the hot water will be delayed until virtually all of the water within the tank has been replaced.

Because the 2nd regeneration will not require any further action once initiated, suggest initiating the 2nd cycle at night, directly before departing for bed so the 2nd cycle will be performed while everyone in the house is usually asleep.
 
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dogeatdog

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There is a method of catching up on under-regenerating. Pour an extra 2 gallons of water into the brine tank. Wait an hour or more. Start an immediate regen. When the brine in the brine tank is sucked down most of the way (the lowest is about the middle of the check valve), throw the bypass into bypass for maybe 2 hours. That lets the brine sit with the salt for a while. Then put the bypass back into normal position. Do another regen.
I can do this but is the following settings correct? Right now the brine tank is about 1/2 filled with salt:

B1 (BW) = 5 ; Backwash (minutes)

Bd = 60 ; Brine draw minutes

B2 (RR) = 5 ; Rapid Rinse minutes

BF = 5 ; Brine fill minutes

This thread gets into cleaning the 2-piece injector (nozzle and throat) and the screen.
Already pulled apart and is clean and unobstructed.

use a bucket to add only an additional 2 gallons water into the brine tank, then wait ~1 hour to allow additional salt to dissolve, then perform the 1st manual regeneration. 2.5 + 2.0 gallons = 13.5 lbs salt.
When you say "dissolve," do you really mean 100% of the salt turns into liquid? Usually, when I add about 2-3 bags of salt it takes a while for them to completely dissolve. I just want to make sure I am doing this right as I am about to throw it in the garbage.

Thanks everyone for the help, hopefully can get this working again.
 

Bannerman

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When you say "dissolve," do you really mean 100% of the salt turns into liquid?
Each gallon of water, will dissolve a maximum 3 lbs salt, creating liquid salt brine. Water will be fully saturated at 3 lbs, so it is the full strength liquid salt brine that is utilized to regenerate the resin's capacity. As it takes a little time to dissolve 3 lbs per gallon, that is why when fresh water enters the brine tank, a 1-hr delay was suggested before performing any further manual regeneration.

While you may add 3 or more bags of dry salt into the brine tank, your 5-minute brine fill setting will cause 2.5 gallons water to enter the brine tank, which will result in only 7.5 lbs salt to become dissolved into liquid brine each cycle. 7.5 lbs salt is appropriate to regenerate 23,000 grains capacity as per the 23K Capacity setting recommended.

As the quantity of full strength brine is directly conditional on the amount of capacity to be regenerated, when there is insufficient brine available to regenerate the full amount of previously depleted capacity, then a reduced amount of capacity will be regenerated, thereby leaving some resin capacity un-regenerated and providing little if any hardness reduction benefit.

Because 1 ft3 resin has a maximum total hardness removal capacity of 32,000 grains, even as your 23K capacity setting should cause regeneration to occur when no more than 23,000 grains capacity has been depleted, you said there were occasions when there was insufficient or no salt within the brine tank. This then will signify all 32K grains capacity will have been depleted, but the 2.5-minute BF setting will result in regeneration of ~23K grains capacity during the 1st regeneration cycle after sufficient salt is made available.

Since the remaining additional 9K grains capacity is beneficial to reduce ongoing hardness leakage, the 2 back-to-back manual regenerations detailed above, will cause regeneration of 32K capacity, thereby resulting in all of the remaining resin to remove hardness, instead of only a portion of the resin. With hardness being removed throughout all of the available resin, hardness leakage will be reduced, thereby resulting in higher quality soft water.

To ensure the brine tank will always contain sufficient salt, suggest topping up each time once the top of the undissolved salt is reduced equal to or slightly below the top of the liquid normally within the brine tank.

In reviewing the settings you asked about in post #9, increase the Backwash setting to 10-minutes. The other settings appear to be correct.
 
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Reach4

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I can do this but is the following settings correct? Right now the brine tank is about 1/2 filled with salt:
Some salt should be above the water. I expect 1/2 full of salt to meet that standard.

Bd = 60 ; Brine draw minutes
Remember the injector color? With your 1 cuft softener ...
#000 Injector – Brown; USE BD=90; good match
#00 Injector - Violet USE BD=60 ; good match
#0 Injector - Red BD=60; acceptable match and probably what you have
#1 Injector - White; I would replace the injector with #00 for a little better efficiency
#2 Injector - Blue; I would replace the injector with #00

The rinse times are not critical. If you had a lot of sediment, you might modify.
 
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