Fleck 5600 Newb: Please Check my Math

[Leighman]

Hi Everyone,

I’ve spent a day reading, and think I have most of this figured out, but need to run what I’ve come up with by you. I apologize for the length.

I’ve had a Fleck 5600 Econominder for many years on a 10x54 resin tank with what I assume is 1.5 ft^3 of resin. That tells me it is 48k grain system. However the salt setting is 12 lbs so / 1.5 ft^3 that means I’m using 8 lbs of salt per... ? Something...

(In reading further I’m coming up with a 48,000 capacity at a 12lb salt setting gives 40,500 of regen capacity, but again, not sure if I should go higher or lower.)

Anyway, it died. Resin was low and I didn’t know until I saw the brine tank full of water.

My softener guy suggested renting a new digital unit at over $400 per year, or buy a rebuilt 5600 head and 10x54 tank for $2300. In the meantime he installed a rebuilt control head and tank with now no mention of a new digital unit, and wants the same $400 a year. The replacement head actually looks older than the 12 year old head it’s replacing, but it works.

I think I can figure this out and buy my own and install it.

His settings: 12 lbs of salt, 3 people at a hardness setting of 20, regen just under every 1200 gallons. I think that’s too much, and after reading think I have been wasting water all these years.

My math: 3 people, 60 gallons per day, water company says I have 17.2 grains of hardness (294.55 ppm). 3*60*17.2, call it 3100 grains of hardness per day. 40,500 / 3100 = 13 Days, but round to 12 for safety margin.

12 Days at 180 gallons per day = 2160 gallons per regen.

I think the softener service just uses the people wheel and 20 grains of hardness across the board, so I’m regenerating more than I have to at 1175 gallons or so, approx. twice as much. (Once every 6.5 Days rather than once every 12.)

I know the people dial also assumes 75 gallons per day, but I think 60 is more realistic for us. For now, I used the people wheel to move it to 17 grains of hardness for 3, which took me up to around 1300 gals till regen. Still too soon I think, but don’t want to go way higher to 2100 without understanding and checking.

What I’m still confused on is that salt setting of 12, (which works out to that same factor of “8” which is the number I don’t understand) and what it would mean for my salt / water usage if I messed with it.

We’re going to be here a few more years, so rather than rent or pay full boat for a used and rebuilt head, I’d like to buy a similar head and tank that will back up right to the plumbed fittings. I believe they are 1” inlets, based on the OD of the pipe.

I just need to understand the different control head functions regarding regeneration and backwash and brine fill to know exactly what’s happening rather than taking it for granted.

Thanks very much for checking my math and taking the time to slog thru all the above, and for any input.

 

[Leighman]

P.S. Before I forget, another online site told me that for best water softening I should leave 60-120 ppm hardness in the water!? First I’ve heard of this anywhere. That is 3.5 to 7 grains of hardness, meaning I would only set my hardness from 10-13? I don’t see the point of distorting the hardness info to the softener, but I’m obviously not an expert. Thanks again for your expertise.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

I’ve had a Fleck 5600 Econominder for many years on a 10x54 resin tank with what I assume is 1.5 ft^3 of resin. That tells me it is 48k grain system. However the salt setting is 12 lbs so / 1.5 ft^3 that means I’m using 8 lbs of salt per... ? Something...

cubic ft of resin.

Why not fix or clean out the old one? If the meter is not working, you could trip it to regenerate manually.

Leaving 7 grain of hardness is not normal. If it was the aim, it would be hard to do. You would be mixing hard and soft to get your 7. Zero grains is nice.

Find the service manual on your softener controller. See what sound confusing, and let us know.

 

[Leighman]

cubic ft of resin.

Why not fix or clean out the old one? If the meter is not working, you could trip it to regenerate manually.

Leaving 7 grain of hardness is not normal. If it was the aim, it would be hard to do. You would be mixing hard and soft to get your 7. Zero grains is nice.

Find the service manual on your softener controller. See what sound confusing, and let us know.

Thanks, the factor determining the “12” salt setting was the only thing confusing to me.

That, and I don’t see how the softener service could be so off in their estimate compared to mine, as noted above.

The Fleck Service manual I have is the same one found online with one page of setup info and a few troubleshooting tips, doesn’t go into calculations, only using the people / hardness wheel, which puts me off by almost 1000 gallons, hence my questions.

Cleaning out the old one or fixing it isn’t an option, it’s gone and a replacement installed as mentioned.

My options are:

1) rent the rebuilt working one currently installed for $420 per year,

2) buy the rebuilt working one currently installed for over $2k, or

3) find a similar Fleck 5600 with 10x54 resin tank and back it up to my current hookup, then learn how to adjust the settings, which are going to be quite different from what the softener service set it up as for some reason.

To that end I posted hoping more experienced people could check my figures and logic. If my numbers were even within 20% of what the softener settings were, I don’t think I would have even worried about the discrepancy.

By the way, thanks for the feedback on leaving hardness in the water, but that actually wouldn’t be difficult using the people / hardness wheel; my hardness is 17, I would set the hardness at 10. Didn’t make sense to me either. It’s at 17 now, but if I set it to regen at the calculated 2100 gallons, the hardness / people wheel will be way off the actual hardness anyway.

 

[Bannerman]

(In reading further I’m coming up with a 48,000 capacity at a 12lb salt setting gives 40,500 of regen capacity, but again, not sure if I should go higher or lower.)

This is incorrect. The 48K grains, is the total capacity of 1.5 cuft of resin when manufactured. To regenerate all 48K grains, would require 27 lbs of salt. That is a huge and inefficient quantity, equalling a maximum salt efficiency of only 1,777 grains per pound

The grains capacity to be regenerated is directly linked to the amount of salt used. Most calculations are stated for 1 cuft of resin, which are then multiplied by the actual softener size in cuft.

If less salt is used per regeneration, then the usable capacity also needs to be reduced, with an added benefit that salt efficiency will increase. The total softening capacity should not be used. The capacity remaining unused in the resin, is useful to assist in delivering a reasonable flow rate without much hardness leak through, even when regeneration is due to occur.

Since 8lbs salt will regenerate 24,000 grains capacity in a 1 cuft softener, then 12 lbs will regenerate 36,000 grains capacity in a 1.5 cuft softener. The maximum resulting salt efficiency then rises to 3,000 grains per pound.

The usual recommended salt doses for a residential softener are 8 lbs/cuft or 6 lbs/cuft.

At 6 lb/cuft (9 lbs in your unit), that dose will regenerate 30,000 grains capacity in your 1.5 cuft unit. This calculates as 3,333 grains per pound salt efficiency.

As your water source is from the town or company which is likely obtaining its supply from multiple sources, they are only stating the average hardness within the distribution system.

Since your home maybe located closer to a source with either higher than average, or less than average hardness, hardness should be determined directly at your home. Since hardness can fluctuate depending on time of day demand, season or service disruptions, it is advisable to add 2 or 3 grains hardness to that actually tested when programming the softener. If hardness tested 17 grains at your home, it is then advisable to program the softener for 20 grains hardness.

Using 20 gpg X 3 ppl X 60 gals/pp = anticipated daily softening load of 3,600 grains.

With 36K grains usable capacity (8 lbs/cuft), / 3,600 = 10 days anticipated regeneration frequency.
With 30K grains usable capacity (6 lbs/cuft), / 3,600 = 8 days anticipated regeneration frequency.

As the 5600 Econominder can not calculate the gallons to be delivered, nor the appropriate reserve capacity, you must then manually calculate those when programming.

36 K grains at 20 gpg = 1,800 gallons less 1 day reserve (180 gallons) = 1,620 gallons capacity to be programmed.

Here's a link to a brief video on adjusting the gallons capacity on the 5600 Econominder.

 

[Leighman]

Thanks very much for laying all this out. I do know that the 48,000 is the total capacity, and wasn’t trying to reach that. I stated that I thought that gave 40,500 grains of what I call regen capacity, based on a 12 lb salt setting, so did my calculations based on that amount rather than 36,000. I still would have been off as I used the 17.2 grains of hardness rather than the 20 you recommend, but would have been a lot closer.

I realize my error when looking at my source chart on another site. I was calculating that 40,500 by looking at the lbs per cuft of resin, 6, 8, 10, etc., and plugging in -12- for the conversion rather than using the figures for 8 lbs cuft, (a 12 salt setting for my 1.5 cuft)!which as you point out are 36,000 grains.

So, if I were to change my salt setting to nine, which would be 6 lbs per cuft, I would use my salt more efficiently with a 30,000 grain capacity, but would use more water, correct?

What I can’t figure out is why the softener service had me regenerating at 1200 gallons for years. I must have been wasting a boatload of water. You would think they would have done this calculation rather than just using the quick people / hardness wheel. (?)

Finally, is it possible that a 10x54 resin tank have -less- than 1.5 cuft of resin? Or is that the default for that unit? Just something my softener guy said got me thinking.

Again, I appreciate the time you took drafting your detailed response. It was a huge help, thank you.

Once I get the new unit I’ll be installing the control head and hooking up to an existing mineral tank and going through the setup procedures, so may be back with a question so I don’t screw that up, but now I understand the settings much better.

 

[Bannerman]

but would use more water, correct?

Since regeneration will use the same amount of water regardless of the programmed capacity, a lower capacity setting will result in more frequent regeneration cycles and therefore, somewhat higher water use over the long term.
The only reduction in water use with the lower salt dose, will be 1 gallon less water refill into the brine tank.

If you're planning to replace the Fleck 5600 Econominder, you may wish to consider a modern digital Fleck control valve. The digital designs typically allow additional control, and they will calculate the gallons and reserve capacity. The newest units will now also calculate water usage over a period of time so as to establish an appropriate reserve capacity based on usage history.

 

[Leighman]

Thanks, I will look into that newer valve. My only concern is that it back up to the same 1” fittings at the same height of approximately 55.5” above the floor, with no modifications to the pipes.

Also, I reread your post and the super obvious finally occurs to me: the number of people matters only when calculating the reserve capacity and the number of days to regeneration. That 1800 gallons to regeneration will be a constant based on the water hardness and the total grain capacity of the unit based on the salt setting.

The softener guy just told me he used the standard 75 gallons per day, but that doesn’t explain his 1200 gallons to regen setting until you get to 8 people: 36,000 / 20 gpg = 1800 gallons less 8 X 75 gpd reserve, or 600 gallons. So I’ve been regenerating more than necessary. 33% more actually.

Thank you again.

 

[Bannerman]

why the softener service had me regenerating at 1200 gallons for years.

Salt efficiency and water conservation were not always the priority they are now. Many softeners previously included only timer operated valves which regenerated on a set daily, every other day or weekly schedule, even when no water had been utilized and regeneration was not needed.

You may wish to consider Stainless Steel Flex lines when connecting a new softener. Although 1.5 cuft softeners will most commonly use a 10" X 54" media tank, I don't know for certain if the connection ports are always placed at the same exact height and spacing on all valve models, even from the same manufacturer. Flex lines would provide ease of connection alignment. You could simply cut-off the existing connectors since flex lines are available with push-on installation to existing plumbing, with no soldering required. For example:
https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Steel-Female-Sharkbite-Flex/dp/B073X7CVJK/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1514495986&sr=1-2-fkmr0&keywords=1"+sharkbite+flex+hoses

If you plan to become your own softener service, you should then also obtain a Hach 5B Total Hardness Test Kit to periodically test the hardness level, both before and after the softener.
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias=tools&field-keywords=hach+5B

 

[Leighman]

Thank you, that makes sense on why the seevice set it up that way years ago, but I’m beginning to see that they weren’t very careful in meeting my current needs. Also, my problem, but I let them take my owned valve and resin tank, at which time they want to charge me for a used valve, and the same tank with new resin. The old valve was working, so at most they will replace some of the internals and sell it again. I’ll have to have a talk with them when the rental bill comes.

I appreciate the link for the flex line connectors, that may be required if the new valve height or spacing is different. Also appreciate the link to the hardness tester, I will get that regardless as it’s a good thing to know.

 

[Leighman]

Well, everything is working fine with the replacement unit the Softener Service installed last month; I have a 12 lb salt setting giving 8 lbs per cuft of resin. But I guess the unit regenerated last night because this morning the tap water was super salty and frothy. After running the tap for a few seconds or it went clear and didn’t taste salty anymore.

That tells me some backwash that’s supposed to go thru the resin bed got into the house plumbing, correct? I didn’t think that was supposed to happen. Maybe the regen didn’t happen in the middle of the night and I screwed up that setting. ? I thought it defaulted to 1-2am.

Water seems fine now; do I need to adjust something here, or is brine in the home plumbing normal after a regeneration? I’ve never run into that before, except once when the resin failed years ago.

Thank you.

 

[GTOwagon]

Salt efficiency and water conservation were not always the priority they are now...

You may wish to consider Stainless Steel Flex lines when connecting a new softener. Although 1.5 cuft softeners will most commonly use a 10" X 54" media tank, I don't know for certain if the connection ports are always placed at the same exact height and spacing on all valve models, even from the same manufacturer. Flex lines would provide ease of connection alignment. You could simply cut-off the existing connectors since flex lines are available with push-on installation to existing plumbing, with no soldering required. For example:
https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Steel-Female-Sharkbite-Flex/dp/B073X7CVJK/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1514495986&sr=1-2-fkmr0&keywords=1"+sharkbite+flex+hoses

If you plan to become your own softener service, you should then also obtain a Hach 5B Total Hardness Test Kit to periodically test the hardness level, both before and after the softener.
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias=tools&field-keywords=hach+5B

These lines are terrific, use them for my hot water heater too. Half the price... https://www.homedepot.com/p/VPC-1-i...gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CKqSl6zs_dgCFdQKNwodbk4Img