Fleck 2510 or alternative

[scarlac]

New home in San Jose. Water tested as:

22 grains per gallon of hardness
390 Total dissolve solids
1mg/L chlorine
38psi

Very low pressure, and house has a 1.5" inlet loop, as seen here, from a previous owner.

Fleck comes highly recommended by this forum, and I agree it looks like a good system, so I'm wondering - given the low pressure, would it make sense to pick the Fleck 2510 SXT (1"), as the more popular Fleck 5600 seem to come with 3/4", or what recommendations could you give?

Thank you

 

[Reach4]

Very low pressure? What gpm can the water supply supply while making sure the pressure does not drop below 30 psi? The reason for asking is for the backwash for a softener. A 10 inch diameter tank uses 2.4 gpm, and a 12 inch tank uses 3.5 gpm. Probably not a problem. If you had a carbon tank before the softener, that would need more flow for backwashing that.

Another unit to consider is the Fleck 5800SXT. You can get that with 1 inch or 3/4 inch connections.

Also make sure there is not a PRV (pressure reducing valve) that is turned down too far.

Your new softener will need 10% crosslinked resin.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[scarlac]

Very low pressure? What gpm can the water supply supply while making sure the pressure does not drop below 30 psi? The reason for asking is for the backwash for a softener. A 10 inch diameter tank uses 2.4 gpm, and a 12 inch tank uses 3.5 gpm. Probably not a problem. If you had a carbon tank before the softener, that would need more flow for backwashing that.

Another unit to consider is the Fleck 5800SXT. You can get that with 1 inch or 3/4 inch connections.

Also make sure there is not a PRV (pressure reducing valve) that is turned down too far.

Your new softener will need 10% crosslinked resin.

Thank you for the answer. I agree on the 10% crosslinked resin based on the chlorine/city water.

There is a PRV but it's already turned up all the way (I had someone check it) so it doesn't seem like it's the problem.

Yeah, GPM to backwash should be good enough. I am mostly worried of undersizing or changing the piping in a way that causes a pressure drop for the whole house to/after the softener. In other words: Is it important to pick a 1" system, or are 3/4 in" OK to pick since it has to convert back to 1.5" anyway to re-enter the house?

I'll take a look at the 5800SXT as well. I saw some comments on it going out of support. I'm also looking at Clack-based systems, but those are not sold directly (I can only find discountwatersofteners which still require a consultation), so it's not as clear what my options are there.

 

[Reach4]

As a check, measure the pressure at the neighbor's hose spigot. If more than 40, then your PRV is suspect. Ask the water department what they expect the incoming pressure to be.

The 5810 and 5812 were discontinued, but not the 5800.

 

[Bannerman]

Is it important to pick a 1" system, or are 3/4 in" OK to pick since it has to convert back to 1.5" anyway to re-enter the house?

Check the plumbing code applicable to your location. Although in a residential application, you likely would not experience a recognizable flow reduction with a 1" valve, to pass code, some locations do not permit an external reduction to the supply diameter, so if your home was plumbed with 1.25" diameter plumbing, then a 1.25" control valve would be required.

Control valves designed for a 1.25" supply include:

- Clack WS1.25
- Fleck 5812 (now discontinued)
- Fleck 2815 (1.5")
- Fleck 2850 (not recommended due to Brass body which may be prone to pitting and erosion)
- Fleck 9100 (Twin Tank)

 

[Reach4]

Even if that were a code thing in your area, and being California it may well be, it seems to me that if the tee where the cold usage separates from path to the WH goes down to 1 inch, there would be no literal code violation. And even in the face of a literal violation, would anybody enforce that?

https://riversideca.gov/cedd/sites/...uts/Residential-Water-Softener-Guidelines.pdf says "California Plumbing Code (CPC) Section 610.2 specifies that no water softener shall
be installed when the installation produces an excessive pressure drop in the water supply
piping. Whenever a water softener is installed, the water supply pipe and meter shall be
adequately sized to compensate for any pressure loss. In the absence of specific pressure drop
information, the diameter of the inlet or
outlet of a water softener and its connecting
piping shall be not less than the diameter of
the water distribution piping to the fixtures
served by the device. "

That is very different from saying that if the house is supplied by a 1.5 inch service pipe, the softener has to be some kind of 1.5 inch softener.

California would like you to brine with less than 5 lb per cuft of resin.

 

[Bannerman]

the diameter of the inlet or
outlet of a water softener and its connecting
piping shall be not less than the diameter of
the water distribution piping to the fixtures
served by the device. "

This statement, including the bolded words, support what was stated in my prior comment. Distribution piping is not branch piping feeding individual fixtures.

Plumbing, electrical and building codes are always minimum standards.

Whatever pipe diameter is installed, will be usually a result of the calculation of the number of Fixture Units originally to be installed in that home. Although unlikely for all fixtures to be utilized at the same time, reducing the connection size to a softener, could result in a bottleneck and a resulting lower flow rate downstream, typically recognized by residents as low pressure or pressure fluctuation, particularly while water is flowing to multiple fixtures at the same time.

it seems to me

Forum posters in search of professional advice, should be provided appropriate advice to comply with local code requirements, not 'I think' information, that may or may not comply with the applicable code requirements.

even in the face of a literal violation, would anybody enforce that?

Since this is an established residence, it's unlikely that local government plumbing inspectors will ever reinspect, but when a property is For Sale, prospective buyers now often retain a private inspector to inspect and report in detail, the condition of the property, including compliance to various codes, prior to submitting a purchase offer.

In addition, mortgage companies sometimes require an inspection as a condition to mortgage approval, and insurance companies occasionally require an inspection, particularly when there is a claim submitted following an incident.

Fixture Unit Pipe sizing Chart example

 

[Reach4]

the diameter of the inlet or
outlet of a water softener and its connecting
piping shall be not less than the diameter of
the water distribution piping to the fixtures
served by the device. "
This statement, including the bolded words, support what was stated in my prior comment. Distribution piping is not branch piping feeding individual fixtures.

Your claim is that if the softener loop is 1.25, the softener must be 1.25 inch or bigger. Maybe it has merit. IMO that interpretation could result in overkill.