Flange not fastened to the floor at all?

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AP1

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I was just about finished replacing the toilet that's been in our house since we moved in over 20 years ago. Imagine my surprise when I started tightening down the closet bolts, the toilet started snugging up, I kept tightening, but the toilet wasn't getting any tighter. I decided to test what was going on by rocking the toilet side to side and it was super loose -- lifting up 1/4 to 1/2 inch. I looked under the toilet, lifted it up a bit and the flange was not visible on the floor. It's as if my tightening was just pulling the flange up into the bottom of the toilet.

I removed the toilet (there goes one wax ring), and sure enough, I could move the flange around on the floor, including lifting it up a 1/4 to 1/2 inch. How the heck was the old toilet snug on the floor? Just because it was heavy and it was caulked all the way around?

I'm a homeowner and don't replace toilets very often. Is it possible the toilet flange really isn't fastened to the floor? Is that an easy repair? Do I need to go under the house? Hire a plumber? Ugh!

I'd appreciate any advice.
 

Reach4

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I was just about finished replacing the toilet that's been in our house since we moved in over 20 years ago. Imagine my surprise when I started tightening down the closet bolts, the toilet started snugging up, I kept tightening, but the toilet wasn't getting any tighter. I decided to test what was going on by rocking the toilet side to side and it was super loose -- lifting up 1/4 to 1/2 inch. I looked under the toilet, lifted it up a bit and the flange was not visible on the floor. It's as if my tightening was just pulling the flange up into the bottom of the toilet.

I removed the toilet (there goes one wax ring), and sure enough, I could move the flange around on the floor, including lifting it up a 1/4 to 1/2 inch. How the heck was the old toilet snug on the floor? Just because it was heavy and it was caulked all the way around?
Yes.

I'm a homeowner and don't replace toilets very often. Is it possible the toilet flange really isn't fastened to the floor? Is that an easy repair? Do I need to go under the house? Hire a plumber? Ugh!
Yes. Probably. Probably not. That works, but it should be within the range of DIY; a plumber would probably be in and done quickly. If it is not your only toilet, pull the toilet, and post pictures that you take with a camera. If it is your only toilet, you could maybe get a Saniseal that can be reused a few times instead of a wax ring so that you could pull the toilet, clean the wax off, take pix, put the toilet back temporarily and treat it gently. Then with the pictures you post, people can recommend a good fix if you want to DIY.

Now if the floor is rotted out, that would make things more complex.
 

Terry

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On a wood floor, they are fastened with wood screws. On concrete my may use a rotohammer and anchors.
You really must secure that first before resetting the bowl. It's best to do it now, before you need a floor replacement.
 

AP1

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On a wood floor, they are fastened with wood screws.

Or not fastened at all, like in my case? Sounds like I definitely should fasten it. Had I known it was NOT fastened before, I would have fastened it before installing the toilet. Ugh.

I read a couple places it's best to use stainless steel screws in this case. Would you agree?

Now I'll go remove all the new wax and wax ring and dig out the old wax from the screw holes, go to Ace to get a new wax ring and screws, come on back finish up.
 

Gary Swart

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On wood floors, I prefer #12 stainless steel screws of sufficient length to go through both the finished floor and sub floor. Yes, I know, stainless steel may well be over kill but the cost is minor. To anchor anything into concrete, I like to use a rotor hammer drill, 15/16" lead sleeves, then screws.
 

AP1

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Aaargh. So, I get the flange fastened, get the toilet in and everything's working great... until I'm checking for leaks and feel a little water where the shutoff valve connects with the galvanized pipe come to of the wall. I go to tighten it little and the leak gets worse. I tighten a little more and now I have a pinhole leak coming out of the pipe...

So, I run out of the house to turn off the water at the meter (and never mind it's filled to the brim with dirt -- %&#! moles). I remove the valve and see half of the end of the pipe has rusted and broken off in the valve. Grrrr.

Now the water if off to our house and I'm trying to figure out what to do.

Here's a couple pictures:

P1060017.jpg

P1060019.jpg


I suppose I could remove the pipe, but I'm nervous about the quality of its connection in the wall and getting in over my head.

Suggestions? Time to call a plumber? Sunday? Ouch.
 

Reach4

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If that is a galvanized nipple, which is what it looks like, I would unscrew it with a pipe wrench or a big Vice Grip with curved jaws after getting that chrome escutcheon off to give more grip surface. Maybe put masking tape on the wall before wrenching to avoid marring the wall.

If it breaks, you will need somebody to use an internal wrench that fits inside the pipe. I would guess most plumbers have such a wrench.
 

Gary Swart

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Keep in mind that dry wall is easy to repair if you end up having to cut a piece out to gain access.
 

hj

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YOu have NO option other than to remove the nipple, regardless of what happens when you try to. REplace it with a brass or chrome plated brass nipple.
 
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