First time Bathroom Renovation

[eggzlot]

I am putting together 2 bathrooms and just want to make sure I am not missing anything when it comes to the plumbing pieces for the Shower units especially picking the right rough in's, etc.

First Bathroom is the Master - no tub, just a walk in. The idea is to have a handheld unit, a wall head and a rain/overhead unit. Its thermostatic control and each unit has its own lever so I can have any combination of the 3 units on at any time.

Thermostatic Control Valve Trim Qty 1
Thermostatic Rough In Qty 1
Rain Showerhead Qty 1
Wall Showerhead Qty 1
Ceiling mount Qty 1
Volume Control Valve Qty 3
Hand Shower Qty 1
Volume Control Trim Qty 3
Wall Mount Qty 1

Second bathroom is a hall/guest bathroom with a Tub. Going for a simpler approach:
Shower head
Pressure Balance Valve
wall mount
Rough In
Tub Spout Diverter

I am sure as this progresses I may have additional questions - so thanks in advance for the help!

 

[Reach4]

Are you real?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[eggzlot]

Are you real?

I am real. Have not tackled plumbing before. stumbled on this site while searching toilets, everyone referred back to this site and forum. So I read some toilet reviews and got a wealth of info. As I am spec'ing out two showers I wanted to make sure I ordered the right pieces. Was I not supposed to link to a certain brand? I was just showing the items. I can edit the post if required and not following forum rules.

 

[eggzlot]

I removed the product links in case you think I was trying to spam/product advertise

 

[hj]

I think he was trying to imply that if you are doing a job like this and DO NOT know what you need, maybe you should not be doing it.

 

[eggzlot]

I think he was trying to imply that if you are doing a job like this and DO NOT know what you need, maybe you should not be doing it.

I'll be more clear. I have a plumber. My GC is a family member and he is using his plumber. They agreed I can buy the parts I want and the plumber will install. Since I am getting a fairly good price on labor and trying to be easy on them I am trying to do my own leg work. And also trying to understand what is being purchased/installed so I can be more intelligent as to what is going into my house.

Hope that is helpful.

 

[Reach4]

I think he was trying to imply that if you are doing a job like this and DO NOT know what you need, maybe you should not be doing it.

No, I just suspected it was somebody doing search engine optimization. Clearly my suspicion was not correct.

 

[eggzlot]

No, I just suspected it was somebody doing search engine optimization. Clearly my suspicion was not correct.

thats ok, that is why I removed the links. Fair to question it from a new poster . New to this forum, not new to forum etiquette in general

 

[Jadnashua]

Individual shutoffs can be a problem for some thermostatic valves. The problem is, you could have them all off, and some control valves don't like that. The more common way to achieve control is with a divertor valve, but they can get expensive depending on the actual number of devices and combinations you want to be able to control...may not be more than three individual shutoffs, though, and, the look would be cleaner using one valve verses three. If you only want to run one device at a time, a 1/2" valve system will work fine. It can get messier if you want more than one at a time, and problematic if you want all of them running. The performance only works when the supply valve can supply more than the devices can output, otherwise, think like a hose without a spout...the water goes further if you put your thumb over the outlet as the physics cause the water to accelerate. No restriction, or less supply available for the need, and less volume and acceleration. A typical 1/2" shower valve maxes out at around 6gpm, depending on the supply temperatures (and the resulting mix of hot/cold). Also, keep in mind the copper institute's recommendation of a maximum of 5fps velocity in supply pipes for hot water - on a 1/2" copper pipe, that equates to 4gpm.

OFten, though the bigger thing is properly constructing the showers...lots of different approved methods, fairly simple, but VERY detail oriented...you should not be trying to roll your own method. The TCNA handbook is the industry bible...you might want to buy a copy. FWIW, neither tile nor grout is the waterproofing...they are decorative, wear surface...the shower should be water tight even before they are installed. Suggest you check out www.johnbridge.com for help in building the showers. Personally, I prefer a bonded, sheet membrane waterproofing method. Check out www.schluter.com for some videos. There are other companies, but they have some of the most comprehensive videos to explain the methodology should you decide to go with theirs or someone else's product to do it.

 

[eggzlot]

Individual shutoffs can be a problem for some thermostatic valves. The problem is, you could have them all off, and some control valves don't like that. The more common way to achieve control is with a divertor valve, but they can get expensive depending on the actual number of devices and combinations you want to be able to control...may not be more than three individual shutoffs, though, and, the look would be cleaner using one valve verses three. If you only want to run one device at a time, a 1/2" valve system will work fine. It can get messier if you want more than one at a time, and problematic if you want all of them running. The performance only works when the supply valve can supply more than the devices can output, otherwise, think like a hose without a spout...the water goes further if you put your thumb over the outlet as the physics cause the water to accelerate. No restriction, or less supply available for the need, and less volume and acceleration. A typical 1/2" shower valve maxes out at around 6gpm, depending on the supply temperatures (and the resulting mix of hot/cold). Also, keep in mind the copper institute's recommendation of a maximum of 5fps velocity in supply pipes for hot water - on a 1/2" copper pipe, that equates to 4gpm.

OFten, though the bigger thing is properly constructing the showers...lots of different approved methods, fairly simple, but VERY detail oriented...you should not be trying to roll your own method. The TCNA handbook is the industry bible...you might want to buy a copy. FWIW, neither tile nor grout is the waterproofing...they are decorative, wear surface...the shower should be water tight even before they are installed. Suggest you check out www.johnbridge.com for help in building the showers. Personally, I prefer a bonded, sheet membrane waterproofing method. Check out www.schluter.com for some videos. There are other companies, but they have some of the most comprehensive videos to explain the methodology should you decide to go with theirs or someone else's product to do it.

thank you - this is very helpful. Ideally I would be able to use all 3 units at once, but could consider limiting the use to 2 at a time. I was told some of the divertors you speak of you can get a little confusing because there may be 5-6 settings and you need to know which setting is which combination. I guess you can just cycle through until you hit your desired combo?

 

[Jadnashua]

Both the plumbing and operation gets more complicated, the more options you want. With three devices, there are seven possibilities (the eight would be all off, so not part of the diverter function):
A, B, C, A+B, A+C, B+C, A+B+C

It really will save some if you minimize the possibilities.

 

[eggzlot]

Both the plumbing and operation gets more complicated, the more options you want. With three devices, there are seven possibilities (the eight would be all off, so not part of the diverter function):
A, B, C, A+B, A+C, B+C, A+B+C

It really will save some if you minimize the possibilities.

Great thanks
I put together 1-2 potential spec sheets and I'll do the walk through with my plumber next week. It is good to hear non biased opinions here and understand the concepts. Then I can see what the plumber suggestions, speak to the GC (a family member I can trust) and likely make an informed opinion.