Fire sprinkler alarm problem since water softener install

[KineticoUser]

In order to install my Fleck 7000SXT and Pentek Big Blue filter, I drained the water from my lines. Though I've flushed the water through my fire sprinkler lines, I'm sensing there must be air trapped in the lines, as occasionally, since the installation a week ago, the fire sprinkler alarm goes off when a shower is being taken. My vane type flow switch senses water flowing up into the fire sprinkler lines, and the alarm goes off. What are your suggestions to stop this annoying problem?

 

[Reach4]

I read that sprinkler systems usually have a test valve that can run water. Maybe that will flush out the air.

I doubt that remaining air in the BB housings is the problem, but many Pentek BB housings have a red button at the top. That would release water or air from the top. Put a pan beneath to catch the water. The purpose of the button is for those who have a bypass valve set that isolates the filter to be able to release the water pressure for changing the cartridge. I guess you could hold that button in during re-pressurizing after a cartridge to release air.

A hot steamy shower can set off a smoke detector. Would there be such a detector involved your alarm system that could trip the same indicator? Running a cold shower would not set off a regular smoke detector.

 

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[KineticoUser]

This is strictly a flow sensor for water flowing above the home circuit and into the fire sprinkler circuit. I've flushed the system through the fire sprinkler test valve, and the water runs with no sign of air. There is no air in the BB, and that wouldn't impact the flow sensor, anyway. Steam wouldn't impact a flow sensor, which is a flapper valve in the center of the pipe that is only triggered when water flows through the pipe.

 

[Reach4]

This is strictly a flow sensor for water flowing above the home circuit and into the fire sprinkler circuit. I've flushed the system through the fire sprinkler test valve, and the water runs with no sign of air. There is no air in the BB, and that wouldn't impact the flow sensor, anyway. Steam wouldn't impact a flow sensor, which is a flapper valve in the center of the pipe that is only triggered when water flows through the pipe.

A softener can add air if the air check valve, usually in the bottom of the brine tank, leaks air. You would notice that you might hear or see bubbles the day after a softener regen in that case.

Does your sprinkler water go through the softener? I would think not.

Is this water from your well? A shallow well or cistern jet pump can suck in air if there is an above-water leak in the suction pipe. A submersible pump could add air if the well runs very low.

I am not speaking from experience. I was just thinking about potential sources of the air that you suspect.

 

[KineticoUser]

The brine tank doesn't have an air check valve on the bottom, as it isn't a sealed tank. This unit only had its first regeneration when I started it up and won't regenerate for another 1-3 weeks.

The sprinkler water is straight from my well feed and isn't softened or filtered. The filter and softener only impact the inside water needs.

My well is ~500' deep. I never had this problem before draining the fire sprinkler lines, and I've lived here for about 23 years.

As far as the sources for the air, the fire sprinkler lines aren't all at the same level, due to coffered ceilings and such, so I assume the high spots never filled with water. Maybe when the pressure pump kicks on it compresses the air in the sprinkler lines, so the flow valve moves. It doesn't happen every time the pressure pump kicks in. It usually happens during a shower (not when the shower is first turned on). I was never able to noticed if the pressure pump started just before the alarm went off. Do you have any suggestions for flushing all the air out of the sprinkler system or coming up with another solution to the problem?

 

[Reach4]

he brine tank doesn't have an air check valve on the bottom, as it isn't a sealed tank. This unit only had its first regeneration when I started it up and won't regenerate for another 1-3 weeks.

If the unit is not an Autotrol with a check valve built into the controller, you need an air check valve at the bottom of the tank. Maybe you have one and just see it as a brine pickup. But its job is to prevent sucking air once the brine has been all drawn out.

This is often combined with the brine safety float valve assembly.

 

[KineticoUser]

I can see it being part of the float assembly, but there is nothing connected to the tank other than the line from the softener and the overflow drain line. I don't believe this is my problem.

 

[Reach4]

I can see it being part of the float assembly, but there is nothing connected to the tank other than the line from the softener and the overflow drain line. I don't believe this is my problem.

I am not saying it is your problem. I am saying that a leaking air check valve could be a source of air into the plumbing. I get some air in my plumbing after a softener regen, because I can track that the air appears the day following a regen. I infer my air check valve leaks a bit of air. The air is not very bothersome to me. I just get some sound during the first toilet refill after a regen. I get a few small bursts of air from a faucet. I am not saying that air is your problem. I am not saying that your softener is injecting air. Mine is.

 

[KineticoUser]

Even if the softener was a source of air, that air would enter the house plumbing system, while the sprinkler system is separated from that system, other than the same original input of water. I would find it very hard to believe any air inputted into the home system would add significant air to the sprinkler system, as any air added to the home would have to backtrack to reach the sprinkler system. Air would take the path of least resistance to rise, and that wouldn't be entering the sprinkler system. The alarm problem existed while the softener was bypassed in the system, before it was even put on line, so this isn't a softener issue, but an issue of air in the fire sprinkler lines or something else I'm not aware of.

 

[KineticoUser]

According to Potter Electric Signal Co, the manufacturer of my VS-SP paddle switch, I could replace that switch with a VSR-ST which has a delay of 30-90 seconds before sending a signal. The cheapest I've seen a VSR-ST is $123. Since I didn't have any problem before draining the system for the softener install, I'm thinking air in the sprinkler system is being compressed when water is flowing in my home and the pressure pump kicks on, allowing the 10 gallons/minute flow up into the sprinkler system. I'm thinking the easiest way to fix this problem may be to go up in the attic and install a saddle valve at the highest point in my sprinkler system. I can then use that valve to bleed the air out of the system. I have two coffered ceilings which sit 1 foot above the other ceilings (living room and master bedroom -- the MBR is close to the water main, while the LR is on the other side of the house), with 2 sprinklers on each. Should I install a saddle valve between each of these pairs? I've always had problems with saddle valves freezing up over time. Do you recommend a reliable saddle valve, or should I coat everything with anti-seize before installing, or are there better solutions? Thank you.