Hello everyone. Nubee here. A little background. I am not a pro plumber but have done dozens of DIY plumbing projects over the years. My current project is replacing a waterlogged pressure tank. Thing is, I'm kind of confused on how water manages to get into the tank, as it is a closed system. Unless I don't understand something, it seems kind of like putting your lips on a bottle and trying to blow air into it. Just so I don't run into a problem, can someone explain to me how this works. I understand there is a bladder. I just don't understand how water can enter a closed system. Thanks for any insight..
Filling new pressure tank
- Thread starter fitz75
- Start date
Users who are viewing this thread
More like an air compressor airing up a tire. Still a closed system. The pump just needs to make more pressure than is in the tank and the water will fill the tank.
Sponsor
Paid Advertisement
Hi valveman. Ok,gottcha. *slaps forehead** 
Ya know, the older I get, my the less my critical thinking skills work. Now that I think about it.. it's a no brainer. Hahahahaha. Alright, well now I feel confident in completing this project. The only thing that bothers me is ...it's 29 degrees outside and the tank is down in a concrete bunker in the ground, covered in 8 inches of snow. .. and we've been out of water for 4 days. Time to get-r-done. Thanks a million.
Ya know, the older I get, my the less my critical thinking skills work. Now that I think about it.. it's a no brainer. Hahahahaha. Alright, well now I feel confident in completing this project. The only thing that bothers me is ...it's 29 degrees outside and the tank is down in a concrete bunker in the ground, covered in 8 inches of snow. .. and we've been out of water for 4 days. Time to get-r-done. Thanks a million.Oh, one other thing. I've read up on those Cycle Stop Valves, but there seems to be something about them that some people say causes a problem for pump warranties. Can you elaborate? I was thinking about installing one, but they appear to be very expensive. Are they worth it?
Ok, I just thought of something else. This problem started about two months ago when our water pressure started pulsating. About a week later, the pump lost it's prime for some reason. After researching pulsating water pressure, and finding out about a waterlogged pressure tank,, I just assumed our tank had gone bad. But a few days ago, the pump lost it's prime again. Is this common with a waterlogged tank.... or could something else be causing the pump to lose it's prime?
See https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/cycle-stop-valve-voided-my-well-pump-warranty.79108/ thread.
Where is your pump? How about a photo that shows the pump, the line(s) from the well, the input to the pressure tank, and the pressure switch.
LLigetfa
DIYer, not in the trades
Is the pipe going into the pump metal or plastic?
Hi again. The pump and tank are down in a round concrete "bunker" below ground. It has a concrete pad on top with a square concrete access lid. At the moment I'm tide up doing something else, but I'll go out and take a picture of the pump /tank and water lines as soon as possible. Thanks for replying.
LLigetfa
DIYer, not in the trades
You didn't answer my question so I have to assume it is plastic. The heat generated by the pump short-cycling will soften the plastic creating a suction leak that in turn can cause a loss of prime.
All the pipes are galvanized iron. Except for a nipple right at the pump which isn't galvanized. And there are two Unions to make the tank replacement easy. I inspected for leaks last week when the pump lost it's prime. No leaks there. But there might be under my house, which is an old modular. Real difficult to get under it though. Thing is, when this problem started, at the time, I had just installed a fitting on our kitchen faucet for a mobile dish washer hose. When the problem started, water pressure at that faucet was real low, but all the other faucets in the house had normal pressure, even when pulsating. I just assumed it was that fitting that caused low pressure. But now I'm not so sure. One other thing. I installed a new water heater last year, but because the pipes in this modular home are plastic, I had to use a couple of those "SharkBite" adapters to go to copper. They may have started leaking, but it's a real PITA to get to them. But I'll check. Meanwhile, I have to drain the old pressure tank. I'll take a picture and post it ASAP. Thanks for replying
Hi again. So, if I understand correctly, the waterlogged tank isn't the cause of losing the pump prime? What we noticed is, once I primed the pump, we had normal water pressure at all the faucets except the kitchen faucet. But over a period of about two weeks, the water pressure at that faucet kept getting lower and lower until no water at all. That's when I know it's lost it's prime.
Oh man, something just occured to me. Gotta go check the pump. It may have been running all this time. OR...gak.. maybe the pump failed!
Btw, I didn't reply right away about the pipes cause my computer mouse failed. Had to get another one. Sorry.
Oh man, something just occured to me. Gotta go check the pump. It may have been running all this time. OR...gak.. maybe the pump failed!
Btw, I didn't reply right away about the pipes cause my computer mouse failed. Had to get another one. Sorry.
Whew! The pump is good. But something has me baffled. First off, to verify there was no water coming from the pump, I opened the farthest cold water faucet just to make sure if the pump came on, no water came out.
The pump was off because the pressure was at 50lbs. This is why I am baffled. How can that be when there is no water in the pipe system, except in the tank.? Which has me baffled too. If you lose your prime why doesn't the tank drain into the water line from the pump?
Thing is, I really don't understand how these systems really work. Guess I have some research to do.
Anyway, I verified the pump works by opening the tank draining valve. About 2 minutes after opening the valve, the pump came on. But because there is no prime, there's no water in the pipe from the pump to the tank. But that doesn't make sense to me. If there is no water in that pipe, how can there be 50 lbs of pressure. Anyway, I shut it off manually with a switch I installed last year, and took some pics. I decided not to install this new tank until I solve this loss of prime problem first. So here I am. What do i do now?
Btw, I don't have an image hosting site. Is there a way to directly upload images from my computer? If not, there is no way I can show you the pics I took.
The pump was off because the pressure was at 50lbs. This is why I am baffled. How can that be when there is no water in the pipe system, except in the tank.? Which has me baffled too. If you lose your prime why doesn't the tank drain into the water line from the pump?
Thing is, I really don't understand how these systems really work. Guess I have some research to do.Anyway, I verified the pump works by opening the tank draining valve. About 2 minutes after opening the valve, the pump came on. But because there is no prime, there's no water in the pipe from the pump to the tank. But that doesn't make sense to me. If there is no water in that pipe, how can there be 50 lbs of pressure. Anyway, I shut it off manually with a switch I installed last year, and took some pics. I decided not to install this new tank until I solve this loss of prime problem first. So here I am. What do i do now?
Btw, I don't have an image hosting site. Is there a way to directly upload images from my computer? If not, there is no way I can show you the pics I took.
Something is blocking the path. It could be the valve that feeds the house. It could be a clogged cartridge filter. It could be some other blockage.
Click "Upload a File" to add a picture that is on your computer.
The pictures will have to be 800 pixels max, and 200 KB max. JPG files are usually more compact for photos, and you may need to compress more. Many cameras have a setting to control the number of pixels and the amount of compression. There are also programs that can do that. In Windows, there is a program called paint. If you crop the photo and save as a JPG, it will usually be small enough.
LLigetfa
DIYer, not in the trades
Are you sure the pressure gauge works? If it freezes, it can no longer be trusted. Is there a chance the water line could be frozen?
Oh cool. Ok. My wife just used a program to size the pics. I'll find out what size. Btw, thank you so much for responding as quick as you have. I really appreciate it.
As for the problem solving, here is what I've learned. We decided not to install the tank, but primed the pump, which was a total a** freezing experience. What I have to do is connect a hose from my son in law's house next door, to a faucet right at the bunker that goes down to a Tee at the valve that feeds the house. I then open the source to force water into the house pipes. Then close the valve and force water into the pipe between the pump and the tank, which I do by opening a little bleed in a fitting at the pump. As soon as water comes out I shut off the source next door and open the valve to the house. Total PITA. Especially in this weather.
Ok, heres the deal. Our water has so much crap in it, I'm beginning to believe it might be buildup in the tank and maybe some valves instead of waterlogging. Today we opened the drain valve for few minutes, but it was draining so slow, this is why we decided to wait to change it out. Tomorrow, I'll drill a hole in the tank to allow air to enter. However, once we got the system primed, my wife tried to fill some drinking water jugs with filters. Holy moly. The first one filled with dirty brown water. The second one was less but still brown. Never had this happen until we tried to drain the tank. Another thing, there is a shutoff valve under the house, that is wrapped with insulation. Two years ago, in the middle of winter, that valve, which is plastic, fractured because of freezing. It got down to -10 during the Arctic Vortex that year . Had to change it out laying in the snow. No fun. But because of finances, I used a plastic valve again. It might be leaking again. Tomorrow, I'll drag myself under the house and check for leaks. Until then, wife is happy. Got water. Toilets cleaned, and dishes done. That's all that matters tonight. Thanks again. I'll post any new things I find tomorrow.
As for the problem solving, here is what I've learned. We decided not to install the tank, but primed the pump, which was a total a** freezing experience. What I have to do is connect a hose from my son in law's house next door, to a faucet right at the bunker that goes down to a Tee at the valve that feeds the house. I then open the source to force water into the house pipes. Then close the valve and force water into the pipe between the pump and the tank, which I do by opening a little bleed in a fitting at the pump. As soon as water comes out I shut off the source next door and open the valve to the house. Total PITA. Especially in this weather.
Ok, heres the deal. Our water has so much crap in it, I'm beginning to believe it might be buildup in the tank and maybe some valves instead of waterlogging. Today we opened the drain valve for few minutes, but it was draining so slow, this is why we decided to wait to change it out. Tomorrow, I'll drill a hole in the tank to allow air to enter. However, once we got the system primed, my wife tried to fill some drinking water jugs with filters. Holy moly. The first one filled with dirty brown water. The second one was less but still brown. Never had this happen until we tried to drain the tank. Another thing, there is a shutoff valve under the house, that is wrapped with insulation. Two years ago, in the middle of winter, that valve, which is plastic, fractured because of freezing. It got down to -10 during the Arctic Vortex that year . Had to change it out laying in the snow. No fun. But because of finances, I used a plastic valve again. It might be leaking again. Tomorrow, I'll drag myself under the house and check for leaks. Until then, wife is happy. Got water. Toilets cleaned, and dishes done. That's all that matters tonight. Thanks again. I'll post any new things I find tomorrow.
If the diaphragm has failed, you might have to drill a hole to let the water drain into your pit to get that water out to make the tank light enough.
If there is a plastic plug thing in the top center, I have been told that covers a threaded hole used in manufacture. Since you are getting rid of the tank, you could try seeing if that could get unscrewed, and it might take an eye you could use for lifting. I have not read about anybody having actually done that.
I have got a lot of useful info from others. Tip Jar for Cary Austin for Cary. There is also Tip Jar for Terry to help support the site.
Last edited:
No tips necessary. And don't drill a hole in the pressure tank. Just use an air compressor on the Schrader valve. A bad tank saves up the crud until you drain it out, then the crud comes to see you. You need a good pressure tank, no check valve after the pump, and you should not loose prime.
LLigetfa
DIYer, not in the trades
As Cary said, that brown crud is from the failed tank. The side that is supposed to only see air and not water will rust when the water hits it.
Similar threads
