Feedback on Mountain Water Supply System Design

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Skytland

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I'm looking for advice on the design of pump system to supply water to our house which is located at elevation on a mountain.

The best solution would be our own private well, but drilling a well is not feasible due to the unknown cost and also because we are on a large granite mountain. Therefore, we have worked with our neighbors to tap into an existing community well which is located below us. We have been experimenting for months, laying PVC up and down the mountain through poison ivy, and iterating until we got the water to at least trickle. We currently have about 30 PSI of water flowing through a 1" PVC pipe at the lowest point at our property line (Point B) but there is not enough pressure to push the water to the house (Point C). Our current solution has a 1.5HP pump located at Point B and a pressure tank at Point C that is working decently well, however, the water is not constantly supplied. For example, if you turn the water on it'll flow for about one minute, until we exhaust the pressure in the line, at which point the water stops until the pump at the Point B kicks on. This can take 2 - 15 minutes, depending on how many people below us are using water. It's a temporary solution, so we are looking to improve the situation.

Here is an diagram.

Description of Current System:
Point A: Elevation 1720ft, Community Well House
- Well house has two pressure tanks with 60/80 switches.
Point B: Elevation 1794ft, Start of Property Line
- 30PSI flowing in 1" PVC pipe. We've installed a 1.5 HP Pump from there to push water up to the house.
Point C: Elevation 1985ft, House
- We have a small pressure tank that pushes water into the house. Water flows, but not continuously. Will turn off after 2 minutes of use (so not ideal for showers) and come back on after the pump kicks on and repressurizes the line (which takes 2-15 minutes). Once the pump kicks on, the water flow is continuous.

Proposed Future System:
We think the best solution is the following
1. Keep the 1.5HP Pump at Point B to pressurize the water and help lift it to Point C.
2. Add a 300 gallon holding tank that would be filled by the pump below it and include a float valve to shutoff the pump when full. This tank would be enclosed in a heated cinder block pump house that we are going to build, along with the pump and pressure tank described below.
3. Add a 1 HP pump to push the water from the holding tank to the pressure tank.
4. Keep the existing pressure tank to push the water into the house.

Advice Requested:
Here are my questions:
1. Is this a reasonable/sufficient configuration or does anyone have a better solution?
2. Is there anything else we should add to this system to improve it, such as a pressure switches, sensors, etc?
3. Do you have any recommendations on what float value should be used in the holding tank? In another thread someone suggested a Philmac High Flow Float Valve.

Thank you for your help!
 
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Valveman

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It takes 32 PSI to get from A to B. So you should be seeing 30 to 50 at Point B as the community well pump cycles from 60 to 80. It takes 83 PSI to get from B to C. So which 1.5HP pump do you have and what pressure is the on/off of the pressure switch? To get 40 to 60 in the house at C, you will need a booster pump working at 120 to 140 PSI. You can have a pressure tank at the house point C, which will store some water at the 40/60 pressure, but you must also have a 150 PSI rated tank down by the booster at B, so the pressure switch at B will have something to cushion it. It doesn't have to be a very large pressure tank at B, but there much be one there.

Pressure tanks do not push water anywhere. They only store a little water to use before the pump must come on. People using water at Point A should have nothing to do with your pump at B pushing water up the hill. What I think is happening the pump just can't build enough pressure to get water to C until the community well pump at A is up to about 80 PSI. So your not waiting for someone at A to use water to turn on your pump, you are waiting for everyone at A to stop using water so the pump can build to 80, which will them let your pump at B be able to finally push water up to C.

All of these levels would be better off with a Constant Pressure system like a Cycle Stop Valve, as that would just hold a steady 75 at A when using water instead of on/off between 60 and 80. A CSV at B would also be able to deliver a constant 130 PSI going up to C, so at the house you would see a constant 50 PSI when using water instead of the pressure varying between 40 and 60.

We do systems like this all the time. You just need enough pump to boost to the top and still have 50 PSI when you get there. Again pressure tanks don't push any water and large pressure tanks will actually just make the pressure at the house lower while waiting for the tank to drain, and as soon as the pump comes on you will have much better pressure.
 

Skytland

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Thank you so much for the quick reply!

Point A to B
re: It takes 32 PSI to get from A to B. So you should be seeing 30 to 50 at Point B as the community well pump cycles from 60 to 80. All of these levels would be better off with a Constant Pressure system like a Cycle Stop Valve, as that would just hold a steady 75 at A when using water instead of on/off between 60 and 80.

That's great to know! How did you calculate this BTW?
I ran the piping two ways from point A to B and both give me about 30psi. The first was to use the existing community infrastructure which has offshoots to other houses (obviously). The second was to just run a line directly to the pump house (above ground to test it). Both options resulted in the same pressure and I couldn't find a way to improve it. The suggestion to add a Cycle Stop Valve to the pump house at Point is a really great one, and I'll share that with my neighbors.

Point B to C
re: So which 1.5HP pump do you have and what pressure is the on/off of the pressure switch?

I'll get back to you on this later today. Don't know the model/brand so need to check that. The pump we have does not have an external pressure switch that is adjustable :/ (it's internal).

re: To get 40 to 60 in the house at C, you will need a booster pump working at 120 to 140 PSI. You can have a pressure tank at the house point C, which will store some water at the 40/60 pressure, but you must also have a 150 PSI rated tank down by the booster at B, so the pressure switch at B will have something to cushion it. It doesn't have to be a very large pressure tank at B, but there much be one there.
Okay, that's super helpful. So we need to install a small pressure tank at Point B as well to provide a cushion before the pump turns on and a Cycle Stop Valve to hold it at a steady 75 PSI.

re: People using water at Point A should have nothing to do with your pump at B pushing water up the hill. What I think is happening the pump just can't build enough pressure to get water to C until the community well pump at A is up to about 80 PSI. So your not waiting for someone at A to use water to turn on your pump, you are waiting for everyone at A to stop using water so the pump can build to 80, which will them let your pump at B be able to finally push water up to C.
That sounds right! Especially since the situation is usually worse in the mornings and evenings when people are home using water.

(New) Question: So it it completely unnecessary to add a holding tank and additional pump at the top?
Or are your suggestions in addition to the proposed plan of adding a holding tank and additional pump at Point C?
 

Valveman

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No if your pump at point B works at 120 to 140 PSI, you will already have 40 to 60 in the house at C, so you don't need another pump.

2.31 feet in elevation is the same as 1 PSI. Or another way of saying it is for every 2.31 feet you go up hill, the pump needs to produce 1 PSI. Then you add the 50 PSI you want at the house to the PSI needed for the elevation.
 
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