Failed inspection! Advice?

[GatorKenD]

Hi all - I've got a addition project going on (2 BR and a laundry). The attached photo shows where the space where the laundry room will be. My general contractor and his plumbing sub-contractor thought we has a simple plumbing project on our hands: Coming out of the existing space (brick wall on the right) was a 4" cleanout (woo hoo, lucky us!) and a hose bib. On the other side of that brick wall are two bathrooms. The new laundry needs a drain pipe for the washing machine (the vertical pipe on the left; there's a p-trap below that) and vent stack (the vertical pipe on the right) that the laundry sink drain will tie into.

Inspector came out today and said we cannot put a washing machine drain upstream of the bathrooms. This came as a surprise to my contractor and his plumber, both of whom are reputable guys. My contractors response is to accept that at face value and take the drain "down stream" of the house. This seems complicated to me... we've got to go at least 80-feet, brick pavers to go under, the lot is rolling which might require some fill to ensure the new drain is below ground, etc.

What I was looking for here was confirmation that this really wasn't code. Is there some misinterpretation of the code on the inspectors part? Is there another way to make this up to code and stay upstream of the bathrooms? FYI, I'm in Gainesville, FL.

Thanks!
Ken

 

[hj]

IF we could NOT put laundries upstream of bathrooms, that would severely limit how architects could design houses. I have NEVER heard of that. In fact, the laundry room is often at the back of the house and the bathroom towards the front or center. However, I would NEVER install a laundry drain with the "P" trap under the floor. IF he insists, which is asinine, maybe the cheaper route would be to go through the existing bathroom and cut in to the pipe there. Might be a good time to remodel one of those anyway.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[hj]

As an aside, if he insists, I would contact HIS superior and ask for his opinion and the code section where it is stated.

 

[GatorKenD]

hj... not to take this too far from the original question... but why so adamant about the putting the trap under the slab? I assume the other option is in the wall?

 

[Jadnashua]

I think you'll find the code requires the trap for a WM to be a certain height above the floor, and there's also a min/max for the stand pipe feeding it.

 

[Bluebinky]

Is it possible the bathrooms are wet vented? That would limit you from connecting a drain "through" the bathrooms, according to my very limited understanding of wet venting.

 

[hj]

Wet venting applies to individual fixtures/traps, NOT an entire 2 bath drain system.

 

[hj]

Some areas, such as Wisconsin, allow the trap under the floor, but it makes a very difficult drain to unplug if it gets clogged. In addition, it creates a very long standpipe, which is susceptible to loss of trap seal due to the the water's inertia when the washer drains.

 

[Bill Shack]

In Quebec the laundry machine connection must be independent of all other plumbing fixture and before all other connections on the main drain or stack. The laundry can be at the back of the house but the connection must take priority over other connections.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

The reason it failed is because the trap is below the floor and there is no way other than wet venting, to vent the washing machine. And, you can't wet vent a washing machine.

 

[hj]

You can wet vent a washing machine, I have done it hundreds of times, but you cannot use the washing machine as a wet vent.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I'm surprised Wisconsin allows the trap for anything below the floor. How do you vent the fixture? Well I guess you could but it would require another vent pipe rising vertically off the horizontal past the trap but who has the room for that.

 

[hj]

quote; The laundry can be at the back of the house but the connection must take priority over other connections.

You mean that a 100' long house would need a 100' washer drain line to make it the first connection, instead of a 5' line to the nearest drain? Quel fou! But that is what you get when you consider anything done from the U.S.A. to be unacceptable.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

You can wet vent a washing machine? Well I suppose you can wet vent anything but last I knew the only fixtures allowed on a wet vent are those in a bath group. IPC and UPC.

 

[hj]

I have "wet vented" many different combinations of fixtures. With the washing machine the requirement is that the washer's connection be the lowest one.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Really? I'd sure like to see that one in the code book. So you are saying that the washing machine can get its vent through say the lav or any of the fixtures in the wet vented group? Without having its own individual vent?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Wet venting applies to individual fixtures/traps, NOT an entire 2 bath drain system.

Actually, if your code is the IPC you can wet two entire bath groups through a single vent.

 

[GatorKenD]

I've got a little more information this morning to share (and another drawing). I think I did myself and those helping me (especially you, hj) a disservice leaving this drawing out of my first post. As it was explained to me this morning, the inspector concluded that it was likely that the old bathroom was wet vented based on the location of the cleanout and bathroom layout. In the absence of other information, he would not bless off on having the washing machine upstream of this situation. 2 questions: 1) is that correct, and 2) can anyone point me to the section of the code that prohibits that? Thanks again!

 

[Terry]

You can wet vent two bathrooms, and if they are wet vented, then the washer can't be part of that. The washer would suck the traps dry. The washer would need to come in below and downhill from the wet venting.

We can't install a washer p-trap below grade.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

We'll from the print, and if that clean out runs as it appears, which would be directly below the wall separating the bathrooms, I can't see how anything would have been wet vented. More likely a 2" vent was taken off the lateral to vent the tub and both toilets with the sink having its own vent. There's not enough of the 2nd bathroom showing to tell if that lav and shower are near the lateral but I'd bet they also vent individually or the shower if there is one may wet vent through the sink. At any rate though, you are in Florida so you are under the IPC which means that you certainly can have a bath upstream provided the waste doesn't flow past the wet vent which would prevent that vent from doing its job. The problem I see though is again, with the trap beneath the floor there is no way to properly vent the washing machine. The IPC will NOT allow a washer to be wet vented.