Extending toilet drain/flange higher - how? Valve - can I move the handle?

[TrevorK]

I have two questions about my bathroom renovation and am hoping for some help!
1) I am increasing the height of my floor (additional 1/2" plywood, plus going with tile instead of lino), so I want to increase the height of my toilet flange so I do not have to deal with using a double gasket, etc. as my thought would be "why not do it the right way?" since I have complete access to everything below the floor (see picture). How would you recommend that I increase the height of the toilet flange? (redoing the entire flange, using a flange extender, etc.)
I assume I just need to cut the pipe at some point and extend it upwards with a coupling. Then when my floor is finished, decide upon the proper height (I see some contention as to whether the flange should sit on the finished floor or on the subfloor) and somehow install the flange. Of course, I know there must be more to it (proper place to cut the pipe, etc.).

Unless it really is just as easy as cutting the pipe, adding a coupling, then adding the new pipe. Things just never seem to be that easy! I have little plumbing experience, but need to do this before the plumber comes in to install the tub (I am increasing the sub floor height) and this will save me a big call-out fee for just this.

2) I was looking at my hot water tank and the ball valve being used cannot be closed - it hits the exhaust ducting from the furnace after about a 1/4 turn. I believe I am describing the type of valve (see picture). Incredibly stupid - the hot water tank and the furnace we both installed at the same time, so I do not see why this happened. I am wondering, is this as simple as removing the handle and just rotating it 180 degrees? There is a nut on it, but I do not want to attempt anything on it (as if it is not meant to be removed and springs a leak, I now have a major problem on my hands.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Reach4]

It is best to have the closet flange atop the finished floor, but not necessary.

I suggest that you read about Sioux Chief 887-GAM. It would be easier for a less skilled person.

 

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[CountryBumkin]

You can remove that bolt on your ball valve. The bolt does not extend into the "water". It's a blind hole (assuming your ball valve is typical).

On the toilet flange question, I would cut the pipe from underneath leaving about three inches above the bend so you can glue on a coupler. Then measure from the top plywood surface to the inside lip (seat) of the coupler and cut/shorten the existing pipe to fit (to raise the flange 1/2" would most likely not require any shortening of the pipe. The coupler would most likely add the 1/2"). The only thing you need to buy is a coupler and the glue - reuse the flange. If you don't have the room underneath to get a straight clean cut, don't mess with it.

Disclaimer: I'm not a plumber - but this would be the way I'd do it.

 

[TrevorK]

It is best to have the closet flange atop the finished floor, but not necessary.

I suggest that you read about Sioux Chief 887-GAM. It would be easier for a less skilled person.

The 887-GAM seems like a nice product - no gluing, no nothing. Just press in to fit. I think that's a great idea. Thanks! Am I understanding the instructions correctly - I am using a 3" pipe to "extend" the length of the toilet drain pipe? I assume if I were to cut the existing flange off at the subfloor level, I would still need a 2" section of 3" pipe (as the measurements are x + 2")?

 

[Reach4]

I would not cut the pipe lower than necessary. If you were to cut away most of the existing flange, and it was an outside flange, the outside remnants should not bother things.

See https://terrylove.com/forums/index....drain-pipe-on-3-steel-pipe.60569/#post-449657 and also see reply #10.

That thread discusses the PVC version, but unless you were going to modify the piece involving gluing, I can't see why the PVC or ABS version could not be used interchangeably.

Professionals are often able to remove the flange on an outside ABS flange without damaging the pipe. The PushTite flange seems well suited to the amateur who does not have the practice to do more skilled things.

 

[TrevorK]

You can remove that bolt on your ball valve. The bolt does not extend into the "water". It's a blind hole (assuming your ball valve is typical).

Thanks - that was what I was hoping to hear. I did not want to have to pay the plumber just to solder it the other way.

On the toilet flange question, I would cut the pipe from underneath leaving about three inches above the bend so you can glue on a coupler. Then measure from the top plywood surface to the inside lip (seat) of the coupler and cut/shorten the existing pipe to fit (to raise the flange 1/2" would most likely not require any shortening of the pipe. The coupler would most likely add the 1/2"). The only thing you need to buy is a coupler and the glue - reuse the flange. If you don't have the room underneath to get a straight clean cut, don't mess with it.

Disclaimer: I'm not a plumber - but this would be the way I'd do it.

Thanks - I am not a plumber either but this seems like it should be such a simple task with a low risk (it only carries water that is flushed, not water continually under pressure) that I would like to try it out. I want to learn more about plumbing, but I have not had time to take a course at our college on it (they have one tailored to home owners).

I will pull the toilet itself off and get a closer look.

 

[TrevorK]

I would not cut the pipe lower than necessary. If you were to cut away most of the existing flange, and it was an outside flange, the outside remnants should not bother things.

See https://terrylove.com/forums/index....drain-pipe-on-3-steel-pipe.60569/#post-449657 and also see reply #10.

That thread discusses the PVC version, but unless you were going to modify the piece involving gluing, I can't see why the PVC or ABS version could not be used interchangeably.

Professionals are often able to remove the flange on an outside ABS flange without damaging the pipe. The PushTite flange seems well suited to the amateur who does not have the practice to do more skilled things.

I would like to just leave it to the plumber doing all the bath/shower stuff, but I need to have the subfloor done (since it goes under the tub) before he gets here. I will pull the toilet and see what is there - and post pictures.

That thread was really helpful - I liked the measurements you provided and the actual picture, it really helps me see what we're talking about.

 

[TrevorK]

I took the toilet off and it looks like the flange is on the outside of the pipe, and is glued on:

Here is a top view, not sure it helps any:

Thoughts on the best way to proceed? Does this change anything in your recommendations?

 

[Reach4]

It looks like you have easy access from below and could extend a pipe up and mount a new flange.

 

[hj]

The handle will ONLY work the way it is. Just bend the handle as necessary to clear the furnace pipe.

 

[TrevorK]

It looks like you have easy access from below and could extend a pipe up and mount a new flange.

I think I know what this whole process will look like, please let me know if I am on the right path:
1) Cut pipe just below flange (I assume a hacksaw with the right blade would work, if there is a better tool for tight spaces please let me know!)
2) Glue in the coupler
3) Glue in the new pipe to the coupler (to extend above the surface)
4) Finish tiling
5) Cut the drain pipe equal to the tile
6) Press-fit the flange (such as the one you showed above, I understand that if I went with a different flange it might have different install instructions)

Would I put the flange on the tile itself or would I be better off shimming under the flange with plywood and putting the tile around the flange?

 

[TrevorK]

The handle will ONLY work the way it is. Just bend the handle as necessary to clear the furnace pipe.

Thanks!

 

[Reach4]

It is better to put the flange on the tile. Note that porcelain tile is very hard to drill, so I would try to have a tile gap where the screws holding down the flange go. Ceramic tile is much easier to drill than porcelain.

With the new pipe, I would go with an outside glue flange, but still get the stainless ring. The outside flange will give more inside clearance at the flange. If you want the ease of not having critical gluing, you could use a metal-banded rubber coupler instead of a glued coupler under the floor. That might be a little more tolerant of a cut that is not quite straight or square. A pro or experienced amateur would glue for sure.

 

[CountryBumkin]

I think I know what this whole process will look like, please let me know if I am on the right path:
1) Cut pipe just below flange (I assume a hacksaw with the right blade would work, if there is a better tool for tight spaces please let me know!)

A hacksaw will work. An electric "sawzall" like this http://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-12-Amp-Sawzall-Reciprocating-Saw-with-Case-6519-31/202438078 would be easier - but it is also easier to get a crooked cut with a power tool. I've cut a lot of PVC pipe (building my pool) and its easy to get a crooked cut when your in a tight place off angle and using a fast cutting power tool - so maybe a hacksaw is the better choice here.

2) Glue in the coupler
3) Glue in the new pipe to the coupler (to extend above the surface)
4) Finish tiling
5) Cut the drain pipe equal to the tile
6) Press-fit the flange (such as the one you showed above, I understand that if I went with a different flange it might have different install instructions)

Would I put the flange on the tile itself or would I be better off shimming under the flange with plywood and putting the tile around the flange?

 

[Jadnashua]

If you do not have enough height available to use a coupler, you could look into a tool like a RamBit. It is designed to ream out the pipe from the fitting (the elbow) below so that you can reuse it rather than cutting it off. THen, you'd just get the proper height riser, and glue on a new flange.

It looks like that is 4" pipe. If so, you can buy a flange that does not have a 'stop' in it...IOW, the pipe can go completely through the middle of the flange and is held in place with the appropriate cement. This means you don't have to be exact on the height of the riser pipe, as you can later just add the cement, and press the flange on, then cut off any excess pipe that is sticking through. Most flanges have a 'stop' in them, and the pipe will not pass through entirely.

It's easier to notch the tile for where the flange mounting bolts/screws go than trying to drill them afterwards, but with the right drill bit, it's entirely possible in the hardest materials. A diamond core bit may be the most reliable, but takes a little finesse to get the hole exactly where you want it - small ones do not have a centering point, and only cut on the outside rim. To use one of those, you hold your drill at about a 45-degree angle to the floor, and use the edge to start to make a divot in the tile. Once you get that started, you slowly rotate your drill up until it is vertical, all the while, making the divot more and more of a circle, until it is deep enough to hold the bit in place. Sounds harder than it is. You need someone to spray some water on the bit, or you can try to make a dam with some plumber's putty and fill it with water to cool things. A diamond bit works more by grinding a hole verses cutting like would happen in wood.