Expected life/reliability of submersible pump

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog. Water is life.' started by aceinc, May 8, 2018.

  1. aceinc

    aceinc New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Location:
    S. Florida
    I do not want to start a religious war, but, "What can I expect as far as longevity/reliability of a submersible pump in an aeration tank?"

    My "water system guy" says his experience is, they burn out every year or two.

    The usage is a house with 3 occupants & a swimming pool in S Florida. Light usage except when I need to add water to the pool.

    Bonus questions;

    1) How will the life expectancy & reliability compare to a jet pump?

    2) Does anyone have experience with this Hallmark Pump? Hallmark Industries MA0414X-7A.
    The specs I like on the pump include a flow rate of ~13 gpm @155' head (or 65 PSI).

    3) Is there any convenient way to convert it to a bottom feed pump? Or should I mount it horizontally?

    4) I notice some of the Aerator MFRs use a "septic system" type bottom feed pump like the Franklin Electric 20XC1-05P4-2W115 to power their pressure tank. When I called Franklin, they said that pump isn't certified for potable water. If I went that route, sould I be concerned? If so about what?
     
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    I have no prior knowledge of the pump, but it looks like you are using the specs right.
    You would want to put a "fl ow ind ucer" on the pump. Search that term in this forum without the little spaces. Those little spaces are to keep people searching for the term finding posts suggesting searching for that term. The flow inducer cools the motor by flowing water past the motor.
     
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  4. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

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    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Not sure why Reach4 want to obfuscate "f l o w i n d u c e r", but whatever...

    Built one from a section of 4 inch PVC and place a well seal on the top of it to force it to only draw from the bottom. The main reason for having them in a large vessel is to force the water to flow across the motor to cool it.

    Some folks will lay the pump on its side and not worry about having a perfect seal at the top. Then you can just cut slits on the one end and hose clamp & tape it to the pump.
     
  5. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Occupation:
    "retired" and still building and troubleshooting
    Location:
    northfork, california
    Hallmark pumps appear to be the bottom of the barrel cheap Chinese units. I wouldn't shoot dice on the pump. Get the Franklin cistern pump with a bottom pick up. Or tip a USA branded pump at an angle.
     
  6. aceinc

    aceinc New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Location:
    S. Florida
    Thanks for the replies.

    I had previously reviewed posts on that which cannot be mentioned. Which is how I came up with the horizontal attitude.

    I looked at the PumpChamber http://www.wellmanager.com/pumpchamber/ but it doesn't have a price. I called, no answer sent an email to see what the price is. I suspect more than I wish to spend, but you never know.


    Do you have any pictures or anything that describes how you sealed it with the wires, etc.?
     
  7. aceinc

    aceinc New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Location:
    S. Florida
    The Franklin cistern pump is not rated for potable water use. I have no desire to grow any extra appendages. Plus I couldn't find a pressure over flow graph. I really do want to end up with >10 GPM at 65 PSI.
     
  8. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    For best results use a round double jacket wire that a cable gland can make a good seal to. Alternately they do make a well seal with a slotted hole for a ribbon style cable that does not work with a separate cable gland.

    Or just lay the pump on its side so it matters not.
     
  9. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
  10. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    Occupation:
    Pump Controls Technician
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    A regular submersible well pump in an aerator tank should last as long as it does in a well. But you need to use a flow inducer sleeve and limit or eliminate the cycling on/off if you want it to last a long time.
     
  11. aceinc

    aceinc New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Location:
    S. Florida
    Related to this build, but not necessarily to the above questions;

    I would like a flow switch with a countdown timer. Does anything like that exist?

    Precisely what I am trying to do is, when water flows I would like to turn on (110v < 1 amp) something, but when the water stops, I would like for it to continue to run for "n" minutes. If the water flows again during the countdown it should reset the timer back to "n" minutes.

    How would I go about searching for this? Or can it be easily built from multiple devices?
     
  12. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Occupation:
    Pump Controls Technician
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    You can get 110V off the pressure switch when the pump is running. Come off one of the hots going to the pump and use a common and ground to make 110V. Then you can connect to a delay off timer.
     
  13. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    In a search engine, try this search :
    "delay relay" "off delay"
    There are scads of variations available. Some devices are programmable to select various modes including off delay. https://www.macromatic.com/blog/relays/understanding-time-delay-relay-functions shows various modes. There are various input and output types.
     
  14. aceinc

    aceinc New Member

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    Apr 27, 2018
    Location:
    S. Florida
    Knowing what to call a device really helps when trying to find it.

    With your help, I found this Delay On Release It seems a bit cumbersome to work with, in that it seems to use a DIN connector. Any ideas on other products that might be easier to work with?
     
  15. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Pump Controls Technician
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Thousands of relays to choose from. But you will want OFF delay not on delay. Let us know what your doing and we may know an easier way.
     
  16. aceinc

    aceinc New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Location:
    S. Florida
    Quite simple, I will be installing two devices that I would like to put delay off timers on.

    1) In my aeration tank I would like to install a corona discharge ozone generator. When water is pumped into the tank, I would like to start the generator (it has a bubbler) and have it run for 2 hours after the pump turns off.

    2) On the pressure side after the filters, I would like to install a UV disinfector, that will start from a flow switch, and run for 5-10 minutes after the water stops flowing.

    In both cases the power is 110v < 100 watts.
     
  17. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Occupation:
    Pump Controls Technician
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    I don't think you want to run the UV light after the flow stops. It might get hot. But the ozone generator could use a delay off timer as you suggest.
     
  18. aceinc

    aceinc New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Location:
    S. Florida
    My reason for running the UV device after the flow stops, is to keep it from cycling too much when the water is turned off & on. I imagine too much cycling is bad for the device. For example when washing dishes by hand we are constantly turning the water off & on.

    They actually recommend the UV device be left on all the time, but in reading the reviews, as you stated, it gets the water hot (> 130) degrees Fahrenheit. I was looking for a compromise which would protect from over cycling without raising the water temp too much.
     
  19. aceinc

    aceinc New Member

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    Apr 27, 2018
    Location:
    S. Florida
    BTW, where can I purchase the delay timers, I am looking for?
     
  20. aceinc

    aceinc New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Location:
    S. Florida
    Can anyone help with this?
     
  21. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    Occupation:
    Pump Controls Technician
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
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