Embarking on whole house re-pipe as a novice

[M. Linch]

I’m a plumbing novice learning all of what I currently know in the last year after purchasing a new (older) home. My only experiences being some drain unclogging with an auger, relocation of a hose bib using PEX, and some leak repairs. I’m going to embark on a whole house re-pipe after discovering the costs are outside of what I’d like to pay. I feel confident in my intelligence and ability to do this.

I would like to take you through the setting, my current plan/thoughts, and then end with some questions. Anyone who so kindly takes the time to read and reply (if you so choose) would gain my sincerest appreciation. If you do choose to reply please be as thorough as you can and keep the lingo to a minimum please so as not to confuse the ignorant ones (me!).

Setting: 1959 one-story ranch-style house, full basement (mostly finished); galvanized steel supply lines throughout; point of entry for supply in utility room; supply is recently installed 1”PEX from street (helped remedy most of our flow problems). The supply currently reduces to ½” once past the house shut-off valve. The reduction is part of the original configuration; old water service was ¾” steel.

Plan: ¾” main from source with ½” branch lines to fixtures. I’m choosing this method because I think it better suits the layout of the house, and I think it would be easier in my case (my own thinking, of course).

Output fixtures: kitchen sink, clothes washer, three hose bibs, utility sink (hot and cold), two bathrooms (each has a toilet, sink, and shower; one bathroom also includes a tub not combined with shower). (Tankless water heater, just to be thorough.)

My questioning might be disjointed but that’s just because I don’t know where to start and if more questions might pop into my head as I’m typing. I plan to also come back to this thread as the project progresses.

--Can I abandon the galvanized pipes in place? Any issues with doing that? I’m going to do my best to remove as much as I can, but who knows what I might come across.

--When I stub out for fixtures and shut-off valves should I come out of the wall with PEX or is a transition to another material preferred? This would be under the kitchen and bathroom sinks, the tub, and the showers.

--I plan to install either a pressure-balancing valve or thermostatic valve for the showers and one manufacturer indicated not to use PEX from the top of the valve to showerhead spout; is this just the manufacturer being safe or is that being code-compliant?

--Do people support PEX to studs/framing for longer vertical or horizontal runs if given the opportunity/space? Would support for PEX be recommended/needed anywhere?

--Would I have grounding concerns? I know I have a grounding rod in the backyard, and also one specific to the solar array (due to code), but not sure if I need to be concerned about something here….

--Any off-hand ideas whether I might be concerned with bringing anything up to code based on the age of the house? Not sure what to specify here, just spitballing for ideas.

Thanks to all for stopping by!

Michael

 

[hj]

A house of that age COULD have ground wires clamped to the steel piping "somewhere".

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Cacher_Chick]

I would start by replacing the primary horizontal trunk lines and any of the easy to access vertical feeders to fixtures and see where that leaves you. If you have more than one bath, the trunk line should be 1" PEX, and high-flow fixtures like garden tubs, showers with multiple heads, and outdoor spigots should be 3/4. (Remember that PEX has a smaller I.D. than steel or copper and every splice or elbow is an additional restriction).
There are transition fittings for PEX to threaded pipe size for anyplace you need to do that.

 

[Flapper]

--When I stub out for fixtures and shut-off valves should I come out of the wall with PEX or is a transition to another material preferred? This would be under the kitchen and bathroom sinks, the tub, and the showers.

You can stub-out with pex but you can also get copper stub-outs. The end sticks out of the wall and you cut it and connect your valve after rough-in or whatever it's called.
Personally I would stubout with the PEX because it's one less connection in the walls and less cost. PEX is rigid enough to hold the valve a short distance from the wall, so you probably won't have issues with bendy valves or whatever; our other house just has the PEX stubbing out and no issues.

 

[Flapper]

--Can I abandon the galvanized pipes in place? Any issues with doing that? I’m going to do my best to remove as much as I can, but who knows what I might come across.

You can leave everything there and unless you actually want to salvage it or something, it's probably a waste of time to remove it.

 

[Flapper]

Have you considered a manifold system?

 

[CountryBumkin]

My only comment is for a DIYer, I would recommend the Uponor AquaPEX (ProPEX) system. http://www.uponor-usa.com/residential-plumbing.aspx

The reason is that this system uses "expansion collars" rather than crimp rings. It's more fool proof - no worry about over/under crimping the crimp rings.

And its easier to use in a tight space since you can expand the collar/pipe with the tool outside of a cramped space (like at a shower valve) and then stick the pipe over the fitting (with about 5 seconds to work with before the pipe tightens up on the fitting) rather than the crimp ring style where you need to be able to fit the crimp tool into the space after the hose is on the fitting.

The downside is that you have to buy the expansion tool. I got mine
'used" off e-bay. The tool is not cheap when bought new (but well worth it to ensure leak proof connections) IMO. http://www.supplyhouse.com/Wirsbo-U...nd-Expander-Tool-with-1-23-41-heads-2412000-p

 

[Bluebinky]

A house of that age COULD have ground wires clamped to the steel piping "somewhere".

Any 3-prong outlets (especially in the kitchen or baths)?

How is your electrical panel grounded? You could already be in trouble because of the PEX replacement if it's only clamped to a water pipe -- preferably, you'll want to have two ground rods. The electrical forum might be a better place to ask about that.

I'm not a pro...

 

[M. Linch]

Thank you all for replying so far. I've come up with a sketch of how I plan to lay out the PEX. The elevation view is fairly accurate minus scale. The plumbing to the water heater has been done by a contractor when that water heater was installed in April; I will simply bring PEX into it to replace whatever steel still remains. The connections past the clothes washer/utility sink aren't necessarily up/down, which is why I added the top-down view to better model what's happening in the house. The mains run within the basement ceiling, which is finished.

Why am I not doing a manifold? I think with the space I have to work with and the amount of different fixtures located in the same area there would be so many pipes to run in that same direction that I might have trouble fitting them where they need to go. I don't mind the necessity of shutting down the whole house should there be problems in the future.

I'll check on the grounding to be absolutely sure. I can visually see all galvanized pipes now and I don't see any grounding connections. The service panel was replaced in January 2016, so I'm hoping at that time the grounding was done up to snuff. If not, I'll do what needs to be done to get it done right.

@CountryBumkin -- Thanks for the recommendation. I'll look into that.

 

[FullySprinklered]

Just finished my third Pro-Pex repipe yesterday. All three jobs were way different from each other. There's a lot to tell.
Business has been good and I'm exhausted, so I'll keep it brief; but I think this is something you can do with just a little input from others. The advice from the regulars here is pretty good. I'm lucky in that my second customer bought the expansion tool, then gave it to me when I called him up to see if he wanted to sell it. Gave me the leftover materials also. Came in handy for the third job.
This last guy just wanted to replace everything that could be reached from the basement level. First day I replaced the cold water lines with blue Propex; second day I replaced the hot water pipes with the red Propex. We're replacing the grey poly here. Five jobs today, so I'll flesh this out over the weekend.

 

[FullySprinklered]

You shouldn't have any problem doing this in Propex. I did a crimp pex repipe when I first came to town ten years ago. It was a total removal and replacement of all fixtures, supplied by galvanized pipe. The crimp tool I used at the time needs a lot of room to function, but the expansion tool I've used lately, works in most of the tight spots.
Pipe sizing you shouldn't go into a panic over. Out on the job, I'll size pipes as if I'm hosting a brigade of marines. In reality, the fixer that my wife and I moved into back in December is way not code. One inch HDPE coming into the basement through the slab, with one inch going to the tank. Then it drops down to 1/2 inch to feed the water heater and everything else in the house. With just me and the spouse the flow is fine everywhere we need it. More people bigger pipe, I suggest.
I would leave existing pipe in the walls and run my supplies up through the floor to lavatories and toilets. Weigh out the time and expense of removing it, and it might be that leaving a few artifacts is more cost effective than the tear-out/put back otherwise involved.
Good luck, have fun, keep us posted.

 

[CountryBumkin]

The benefit of removing the old pipe is that you can use the same holes to run the new pipe.

 

[M. Linch]

Thanks again for more replies.

This project is on hold while we take a planned trip out of town. We're also pausing mentally while we think about the best way to go about this.

One thing that makes us pause is the desire to gain the knowledge to bring things up to code and deciphering the code so that we understand it. I've contacted a city inspector to ask about a possible pre-project inspection to help guide us in getting up to code. I'd rather get close to right, if not 100% right, the first time. Or, hiring a home inspector to take a look. The one we had just a year ago seemed quite thorough and knowledgeable.

 

[FullySprinklered]

It's probably not smart to bite the hand that feeds you, since I work a lot of inspector's lists when people buy and sell homes here. Just use your best judgment when utilizing the services of a home inspector. There's good ones and bad ones as in all trades, but sometimes some of them will wander off the path of common sense and load up their report with nit-pickey items that should not be of great concern.
We sold a house eight years ago. The inspector noted that the "chimney" was two feet too close to a bump-up in the roofline . The house passed inspection 20 years ago when it was built. So, now we're supposed to peel off a third of the roof and move everything over? The inspector was correct, but the timing was way out of whack.

 

[RogerPDX]

I just put up a post regarding the Milwaukee ProPex Expander tool.

Since this thread already has people on it that will be 'notified' I am hoping
that you might go read that post and answer if you can.
Thanks.

 

[Dj2]

Looking at your diagram, You'll be much happier with a 1" main throughout, when demand is up.