Drake installation - things I learned along the way.

[Wallijonn]

1] If you are thinking of replacing your toilet wall water valve it's best if you do it while the old bowl is removed and before you install the new bowl.

2] To remove a stuck compression ring (don't bother trying to hammer it off) use a flat file and file away the top of it WITHOUT filing into the copper pipe - just real close. It should now be much easier for it to come off.

"Sandpaper" the copper pipe so that the copper looks nice and bright.

3] Always use Plumber's Pure Silicon on all threads. This is especially important on the bowl studs that anchor the bowl down.

4] Inspect the old bowl studs and nuts. [Remove all of the old wax ring after stuffing a rag into the outlet hole. You do not want to have a stud fall down the hole.) Compare the old bowl heights (where the studs protrude through the bowl base) to the new bowl . If the studs are still in good shape after cleaning and the nuts still look good, chances are great that you can re-use them. If you can't and you bought new studs, cut the new studs to the same length as the old ones, filing as necessary so that the nut can be threaded onto the bolt. It will save you a lot of grief later.

Install the studs, tighten them down to the base plate and measure the centre of the bolt to the wall. Adjust as necessary so that they are both the same distance from the wall.

Place the bowl base on the studs and check for uneven surface(s). Use shims if necessary. (I lucked out - my floors are nice and level).

5] Remove the bowl, apply bathroom silicon to the rearward bottom of the bowl, say from the stud holes rearward; apply the wax ring. Once it's in place (sit on the toilet gingerly applying your weight to settle the wax ring) and the rear of the bowl is next to a wall it will be almost impossible to apply silicon. Yes, it can be done but it will be messy, much messier. Apply with your fingers, take a moistened rag, wrap it around your pointing finger and run it over the silicone. Follow up with a dry rag to remove excess silicone that sticks to the bowl sides and floor. Fold the rag as necessary so that you do not get silicone on the bowl, floor and wall molding as you work all around the bowl circumference.

6] Tighten down the bowl but do not make it overly tight. (Don't forget the plastic cap bases! and the metal washer over the plastic cap.) They will be marked "This Side Up" on one side. Install the bottom "slot" of the plastic base correctly into the bowl base hole (should be flush instead of riding up on one end.) You will want to install the tank so that you can pivot the front of the toilet so that the back of the tank is parallel with the wall back.

7] As you tighten the tank move it back and forth (at the top) so that you can gauge how "play" you have and how much you will need to tighten. Alternate tightening sequence so that the tank finally becomes flush on all three points while using your other hand to rock the tank front back and forth. There will come a point where there is no "play" as you move the tank side to side and back and forward. Tighten until there is no play. Just threading the bolts through the tank, installing a washer and a nut will be aggravating. Use your chest to push down the tank top as you lay a washer on top of the nut and then tighten the nut until the threads are flush with the nut bottom; repeat for the other side. Now that the nuts are threaded you can begin to tighten the buts. A socket set comes handy here.

8] Adjust the front of the toilet so that the tank back is parallel with the wall back. Start to tighten the bowl screws, alternating the tightening and lift up on the outer rims (alternately) to gauge "play". Tighten them down until there is no play on either side and no play forward and back. (Forward and back "play" will need shims to correct.)

9] Flush at least three times to check for leaks under the bowl base.

10] Silicone the bowl base.

11] Install the toilet seat. Since I bought the ADA height toilet I knew that I would want a slim toilet seat instead of the thicker wood toilet seat. I went with a plastic Kohler Brevia Q2 Advantage #4774-0 toilet seat from Home Depot. It is easily removed by flipping up the rear cap covers. Once the cap covers are re-installed it tightens the hinge fingers tightly.

Since I have hard water (rust & mineral deposits) I first applied "Invisible Shield" Surface Protectant (from Ace Hardware) to the bowl insides and under the rim (water holes). Hopefully it will prevent stains for awhile...

 

[Cacher_Chick]

Silicon is what electronic microchips are made of, and has no place in plumbing.

Silicone is available as either/both a lubricant or a sealant, which are 2 different things, and has no place in plumbing.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jadnashua]

While silicon plumber's grease has its uses, when installing a toilet, you really don't want to use a silicon caulk to bond it to the floor...something like PolySeamSeal works, and you can then still remove the toilet without major headaches like you'll have if you used silicon caulk to seal things up.

 

[SteveW]

The other thing, which I learned on this very site, is that professional plumbers generally don't caulk all around the base of a toilet. They like to leave the back half or so uncaulked, so if there is ever a failure of the wax seal, you have a better chance of detecting it by having a place for water to leak out from under the toilet onto the finished floor. If you caulk the whole toilet base, water can leak for a long time without the homeowner knowing anything is wrong, and the subfloor can be pretty rotten by the time they discover the leak.

You caulk the front half mainly to prevent mis-aimed urine from getting in under the front of the toilet base. That's where you need the protection.

 

[Jadnashua]

FWIW, some places require only the front be caulked, some require it all the way around. Personally, I can live with either, but would rather just do the front. Unless the toilet rocks, and you've installed it properly, there's no good reason to expect it to ever leak unless it breaks (and that's not very common unless it rocks).

 

[SteveW]

Lots of "ifs" in that sentence. No doubt if a pro installs it, little risk of wax ring failure short of homeowner error. If a naive DIY'er installs a toilet w wax ring, lots of opportunities to screw it up.

Also, have heard that overly vigorous plunging can blow out a wax ring.

 

[Wallijonn]

While silicon plumber's grease has its uses, when installing a toilet, you really don't want to use a silicon caulk to bond it to the floor...something like PolySeamSeal works, and you can then still remove the toilet without major headaches like you'll have if you used silicon caulk to seal things up.

No, I only use Plumbers Silicon Grease on pipe threads to prevent galvanization between dissimilar metals and mineral deposits.

As far as the bath & tile silicone goes, I did not install it underneath the toilet, just the 1/16" circumference around the toilet. This is NOT what it looked like:

I left three "weep holes" at 120° distances around the bowl. Trust me, there is NO WAY that I could live with that silicone application. When I do windows, for example, I first mask all surfaces with painter's tape, apply the silicone, run a wet finger tip to round it out, I wait 60 seconds, peel back the painter's tape and end up with a razor's edge of silicone. If it doesn't look perfect I can't do it.

But you're right, silicone should never be used on a toilet base: https://terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?860-Caulk-toilet-to-floor

This is what I do on windows, but I don't know if it's what I would do on a toilet. (Well, yeah, if truth be told this is exactly what I would do. )

http://www.tilecleaning.org/how-to-caulk-toilet.htm

What the instructions don't mention is that the chaul/silicone should not be allowed to dry beyond 2 minutes because you're likely to get skimming when the tape is removed. It's best to just apply the caulk and remove the tape immediately, pulling the tape at a very sharp angle, say about 7° to 21°, maybe even 45° if there's a large amount to be removed. So the top tape would be removed with a downward stroke as you pull the tape away and the second hand helping to hold down the back of the tape so that the angle stays consistent. On the bottom tape I would probably pull it back at a sharp angle as I worked around the circumference.

Like I said, I'm anal when it comes to caulking. ymmv. I go nuts when I watch "This Old House" and the contractor just swipes the silicone with his finger. Absolutely nuts.

 

[Wallijonn]

And, thanks to you guys I just re-checked the toilet. I have a very slight leak at one of the tank bolts. Hmmm. Time to re-do the tank top.

 

[Wallijonn]

After three more tries re-positioning the tank to bowl gasket I decided to just replace it since the leak was not coming from the bolts themselves but the water was somehow seeping past the large tank flush valve gasket. I wanted to remove the flush valve nut to inspect the plastic washers but I didn't have the large nut wrench. So I just bought the Korky tank to bowl gasket kit, #481BP, at Ace Hardware. The gasket itself was red instead of the supplied black gasket, seemed more rubbery, felt denser and seemed thicker. One consequence is that since it is firmer I was not able to fully compress it such that the tank contacted the bowl at the three contact points. But it is compressed enough that the tank doesn't rock. The leak is now gone. I did notice that there was what seemed to be a "cut" (as if someone scraped a piece of porcelain off before it was fired) around part of the circumference of the bowl flush water inlet hole; it was un-glazed. (If the Drake Round that I intend to buy later has the same problem I will probably apply a thin coat of silicone to it and let it dry overnight before I install same. Korky should make a thin gasket that is fitted into the inlet hole and then the flush valve tank gasket mates to it. Most would consider that over-kill, though.) The back of the tank lid was also not completely glazed, having a bubbly texture to the back of the lid, the part not seen. The tank is about 1+1/4" away from the way surface, so the Drake diagram does seem to be accurate.

I really love the Drake toilet. It doesn't seem to move as much water as the Eljer that I love at work. But being able to slightly depress the handle for a less than 1 gallon flush for urine is a great feature, one that I am sure saves more water than a toilet with two water saver flush buttons. "Softies" left behind the first flush get flush away with subsequent urine flushes.

No doubt if a pro installs it, little risk of wax ring failure short of homeowner error.

I have little confidence in many "professionals" in AZ. It doesn't matter what their profession, most "professionals" here are only interested in money, how much they can get in the shortest time, doing the absolute minimum work possible. I would love to think that there are consummate professionals like Terry and his brother everywhere, but in reality there isn't; mostly there are inept sub-contractors and self described professionals with no certifications that have no morals, that take no responsibility, that really don't care what the customer thinks, that don't care if customer is dissatisfied with their work. One thing I've learned here, in AZ, is that if a "professional" demands payment before work is begun - run away as fast as you can from them.