Do I have an accident waiting to happen with my well motor

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Valveman

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Most submersibles are made to be non-overloading. So even if you are pumping more water than it was designed for, the amperage should not be high. Restricting the output to 1 GPM with a valve will make the amps drop if the thrust bearing is still good. It will tell you nothing about the swell of the winding. As I said earlier, canned stators swell when they get hot from cycling on and off too often. Once the stator has swelled, it is only a matter of time before the motor just won’t start again. They are designed to take the abuse of cycling on and off for about 7 years before they fail. Your pump has cycled itself to death in the prescribed amount of time.

I agree with Texas Wellman that you should just run it until it quits. But be prepared to replace it and be without water on Friday or Saturday, or probably even Thanksgiving or Christmas. Because they always quit on a weekend or holiday when the pump man can’t be found. After you push that red reset button about two more times, it won’t start the next time.
 

Ballvalve

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Would testing the resistance between the motor wires per Franklin not give him an indication of the windings condition?

And I dont recall him saying he has had to push the reset button....
 

Valveman

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:I went out and flicked the breakers and pushed the reset button on the bottom of the control box.

The ohm reading on the insulation will not change until the insulation is comprimised. A slight swelling of the stator can actually grab the rotor and cause slightly higher amperage, and the windings can still be insulated. The swelling drags the rotor and leaves debris in the motor, helping to destroy the motor sooner. The ohm reading will then show a problem as soon as the stator wears through, as it will show a short to ground.
 

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I love this discussion as it is telling me a whole lot. None of this has been lost on me. However, there are a few things I must do before I address these great comments.
1. Re-adgusted the high pressure setting from 68psi to 60psi.
2. rechecked the tank pressuse which gave me a reading of 35.6psi. It gave me the same on recheck. I turned the pump off at the breaker; emptied the water, left the valve open to get my reading 0f 35.6. I then put in more air. It now reads 37.5psi.
3. Purchased a meter [Greenlee CM450] that measured volts, apts, ohms, ect.

I started with the Franklin AIM manual on checking and repairing procedures. The first was:
Checking the voltage [motor off] at the pressure switch of L1 & L2. They both read 120 and some change. Next will be the same with the motor running; then current [Amp] measurements.

Paul
 
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paul06

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I am getting ready to test the winding and insulation resistance. After turning the pump motor off at the main well box, it says to set my meter on " R x 100K for insulation and R x 1 or 10 for the other test. My digital meter does not give me that option. I wonder if the readout will automatically give me the correct numbers because it is digital; Am I right ? Also it say to disconnect the leads [wires] from the pump to the control box to make these checks [red, yellow, black] With my understanding the reading would be the same with the wires connected or disconnected . However I am not sure about that. Of course it would be slimplier not to disconnect the leads. What do you think????

Paul
 

Ballvalve

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You must disconnect the leads. The box has to be out of the circuit. Try any rx setting close to that , you'll just get some more decimal points.
 

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You must disconnect the leads. The box has to be out of the circuit. Try any rx setting close to that , you'll just get some more decimal points.

Thanks, I will go for it.

However when I set out to do this deed, I checked the voltage at the pressure switch; it was it has been lately. I shut off the pump at the curcuit breaker. Rechecked the voltage. Surprise! It did not read 000. I checked it at the pressure switch. Although it was not much; under 2 volts per wire L1 and L2 and Blk. I was surprised to see any readout at all. Is this normal? I did not disconnect anything as I was not sure if I would get zapped or not. Better safe than not.

Also, in the control box it appears that there is no ground wire to the pump. I enclosed a pix of the box showing one grond screw with wire to pressure switch and no ground wire in the other ground screw. Also a diagram fro Franklin AIM. Am I reading this picture incorrectly?
 

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Ballvalve

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Between l1 l2 and BLACK? read voltage between l1 l2 and ground. Maybe an illusion but it looks like a break in your yellow ground wire. l1 and l2 should be taped red and black and the ground green. If you read to the black pump wire you probably saw residual voltage in the capacitor. Always discharge a capacitor with a screwdriver across the leads if it was recently hot, you can get a shock from them - basically a battery.

Forget the pump ground wire, its a new innovation compliments of some dope in the government. Use a insulated screwdriver and get on with it - you really don't need to mess with the capacitor to release the pump wires.

While its all loose put some wire protection devices in the knockouts, or at least tape or silicone against cuts.

Also read l1 to l2 voltage with breaker off, it must be 0.

I hope your pump guy didnt hook that up without wire protectors or clamps in the knockouts. His work would be suspect unless it was a test run.
 
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Thanks, I will go for it.

However when I set out to do this deed, I checked the voltage at the pressure switch I checked it at the pressure switch.

QUOTE]

From what you are saying, I should have taken my voltage readings at the Control box. The reason I chose the pressure switch was that there was a white wire that I could use with one lead and place the other lead over each of the other yellow/blk wires. That is the way I checheck light fixtures and I felt comfortable with doing it that way.
However, I want to do it right. I am not sure how to proceed at the control box as there is no white wire.
You are right, none of the yellow wires are taped with a color.

You say that I do not need to mess with the capacitors to release the pimp wires. - However you are saying that I should dfischarge it anyway for safety reasons.. Are both pum and start caps in need of discharge?

OK, I will put a dap of silicone in the knockouts

With the pump turned off I will l1 to l2 voiltage. I assume [bad word, I know] that you mean one lead on each wire.
I will check to see if he put wire protectors or clamps in the knockouts

Yes, that ground looks like a break. I went out to recheck and tak another photo. Turns out it was a piece of dirt.
 

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Ballvalve

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You do not need to check if he put fittings into the knockouts, we can see there are none.

In your control box, set your meter to voltage and put the leads on L1 and L2 it will be 0 when the breaker is off. Then L1 to the green terminal and L2 to the green terminal. Again you should get 0.

Now, just never mind the capacitors and release the pump wires and do your AIM manual tests as described, and report back.
 

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Now, just never mind the capacitors and release the pump wires and do your AIM manual tests as described, and report back.

Winding Resistance: Y to B = 2.5 ohms Y to r = 9.2 ohms

Insulation resistance: r to grd = 45 m ohms b to grd = 46 m ohms y to grd = 46 m ohms [ the first time i took those readings earlier i got readings 0f 81, 81, and 78 not sure why that was]]
 
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The more I thought about it, it did not make any sense, so I went out for a third time. This time I got an average reading if 55 m ohms. The readout never did come to rest, it kept jumping around. I am going to take this meter back and select a different one, then try this again.
Paul
 

Ballvalve

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I think those readings sound okay. Try testing amp draw on each line to the pump [while running] with a clamp on meter.
 

paul06

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testing amp draw

With pump/motor running.

Red = 1.33 amps

Black + 12.3 amps

Yellow = 12.3 amps
 

paul06

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Ok, but I will wait until it quits on me. Do yoiu mean by your phrase "getting tired" meant it was slowing down and might take awhile. I know that is impossible to answer. What is my next move? Do I wait and call a wellman when it quits. Do I buy a motor myself and have a wellman install it? I do not know what is involved in pulling the motor, or what it takes in tools to do so. I have the well record that the State of SC emailed me last week. It is not completewly filled out, but has information that I was not privy to. No Pump mdl # though. I bought some protectors to put in the cutouts. However, they were a "hair" to wide and I have to exchange. At least that will be done. How do I find a good wellman? I do not feel that the guy that installed and also came out and exchanged the control box and sent the well record to the state did a complete job. Is pulling and replacing the motor something that a DIYer could handle?
 

Ballvalve

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What is well depth and what sort of pipe is inside? That will tell if its a home project.

Changing the motor on the pump head makes changing a tire look hard.

You need to investigate if your pump has too many starts per day [Franklin AIM] and make sure your pressure tank is correctly sized and operational. You can look at the CSV thru Valveman also to reduce these starts if your tank is too small.

Finding a good well man is like finding a good wife. Takes research and references.
 

paul06

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What is well depth and what sort of pipe is inside? That will tell if its a home project.

Changing the motor on the pump head makes changing a tire look hard.

You need to investigate if your pump has too many starts per day [Franklin AIM] and make sure your pressure tank is correctly sized and operational. You can look at the CSV thru Valveman also to reduce these starts if your tank is too small.

Finding a good well man is like finding a good wife. Takes research and references.

Information from "Water Well Record" from the SC dept of health & environmental control Bureau of Water:

Well depth: Casing goes down from 0 to 160 ft. PVC
Static Water Level: 120 ft.

Screen: .012 PVC length; 20 set between 160 & 180 ft.
Filter; 150 ft to 180 ft
Grouting: Neat cement from 0 to 20 ft
Pump: Goulds 1.5 hp volts; 230 [no model #listed] type - submersible Height Above ground; 1.5 ft
length of drop pipe; 160 ft
capacity 18gpm

Formation description:
Silty Red Sand to the 10 ft level
Red Clay to the 30 ft level
Yellow sand to the 50 ft level
Sand and Gravel to the 75 ft level
Fine Sand & Clay mix to the 100 ft level
Fine Sand to the 125 ft level
Sand & Gravel to the 180 ft level
 
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Ballvalve

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You can pull that by hand with a helper and some block clamps to grab the pipe if its screwed joints. Might be able to just pull the whole string without even breaking the joints with another helper.
 
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