Do I have an accident waiting to happen with my well motor

[Ballvalve]

Are your numbers reversed? the 19 minutes should be from 60 to 65.

that pump should give you 15 to 30 GPM

Read the instructions on adjusting your switch inside the cover or buy a new one preset 20-40 or 30-50

If you have a surface check valve, you might have a leak in your down pipe IN the well. Remove the surface check valve and see if water runs back into the well. This might be your best bet if that surface check valve exists. So its possible that your well guy is not to blame at all, but the pipe.

 

[Valveman]

You first said it takes 57 minutes to fill the tank. Then your "rundown" of the pump cycle only shows the pressure dropping from 65 to 40 PSI in 57 minutes. That is not the pump cycle time, that is how long it takes to drain the 19 gallons out of your tank. The pressure should not drop at all unless yo uopen a faucet and use some water. If the pressure is dropping when no one is using water, then you have a leak. 19 gallons in 57 minutes means you have a 3 GPM leak. Could be a check valve down the well or a hole in the drop pipe.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[paul06]

You first said it takes 57 minutes to fill the tank. Then your "rundown" of the pump cycle only shows the pressure dropping from 65 to 40 PSI in 57 minutes. That is not the pump cycle time, that is how long it takes to drain the 19 gallons out of your tank. The pressure should not drop at all unless yo uopen a faucet and use some water. If the pressure is dropping when no one is using water, then you have a leak. 19 gallons in 57 minutes means you have a 3 GPM leak. Could be a check valve down the well or a hole in the drop pipe.

I am really embarassed about a blunder like that. To much information and a confused brain i Guess. I was wrong of course. to fill the tank from 40 to 65 psi it takes 1minute 15 seconds. On the other, [for some reason] I read my notes wrong and checked to see how often the pump was starting. I watched the pressure drop from 65psi to 40 while I was out at the pump in a time span of a little under an hour. I asked that no one use the water while I was doing this. It makes sense that the pump should not go on [the pressure drop without any water being used.] I will double check this by running another test and make sure that no one is using any water. If is does goes and then there is a leak. Thank you for pointing out to me what I should have known, but was to dense to put it together. Also, I will look to see if there is a check valve above ground for leaks.

 

[paul06]

The well provides water to the house. Also there are three underground pipes leading to different parts of the property [one is next door, where my son uses it to water his lawn. The leak may be in one of them. I will check these by installing shutoff valves in them if necessary. I am hoping against a leak below ground in the well. Will try to eliminate all other sources first.

 

[Valveman]

The well provides water to the house. Also there are three underground pipes leading to different parts of the property [one is next door, where my son uses it to water his lawn. The leak may be in one of them. I will check these by installing shutoff valves in them if necessary. I am hoping against a leak below ground in the well. Will try to eliminate all other sources first.

Now you are on the right track. Don't be embarressed. There are many professional pump installers who are just as confused as to how pumps really work. I have spent a lifetime studying pumps and still learn something new every day. To be such a simple device, pumps can have complicated explanations and a million different ways to hook them up. Most of it is failrly starght forward. You just have to go through it one thing at a time and figure things out by a process of elimination.

 

[paul06]

Now you are on the right track. Don't be embarressed. There are many professional pump installers who are just as confused as to how pumps really work. I have spent a lifetime studying pumps and still learn something new every day. To be such a simple device, pumps can have complicated explanations and a million different ways to hook them up. Most of it is failrly starght forward. You just have to go through it one thing at a time and figure things out by a process of elimination.

Thanks for the encouragement. I found the leak. One of the faucets was partially on. The pump turned off at 65psi. I found the faucet in question within five or ten minutes. By that time the pressure had fallen to 60psi. An hour and a half later it was still at 60psi

 

[paul06]

So far I have found out the following:
1. Tank takes 1 min 15 sec to refill from 40psi to 65psi
2. When the tank is full [65psi] I took out 19 gal of water before it "kicked back on at 40psi]
3. Tank does not lose pressure while sitting idle [over 1hour check on that].
4. Tank only has one pipe coming from it. [which indicates to me from the sticky on tank maintainance is a "bladder type system.

From the "well tag"
1. Registration # 924
2. Installer: Abe's Drilling
3. Date completed: 2-16-2004
4. Depth: 180
5. Casing Depth: 160
6. Diameter: 4 inches
7. Static water level 20 or 120 [I presume the latter] ; his scratches are hard to decipher


What I have not been able to find out:
1. information about the motor. There is no indication on the motor anywhere that I can see that tells me the make, model, HP, ect. Only info that the well man scratched in

 

[paul06]

I did a pressure test.
1. Turned off well
2. Turned on faucet to let the water run out.
3. Checked the pressure with a gauge on the valve at the top of tank .It read 35.6 [my shutoff is at 40psi]
4. I am thinking that I should put some more air to bring it up to 38 psi

 

[paul06]

I am now ready to check out the motor. I have been looking at the Franklin AIM Manual. It seems that I first have to know if I have a Single or Three Phrase motor. I can most likely tell by the wiring. What do I look for to tell the difference?

 

[Ballvalve]

You have a single phase motor, three wire with control box, capacitor start and capacitor run. CSCR on franklin.

 

[paul06]

Getting the needed information so I know what I have in my well as far as components is as hard as finding teeth in a chicken. Thanks to the last post I recieved I now know that I have a single phase motor. Also, I was able to get the "well water record from the state. it answers more questions. As far as the tests I want to run rountenly now that I understand that my motor is bad because the the draw of 12.0 amp from the control box on a 1 1/2 HP motor. I know an electrician friend. Will get him to show me how to run these tests and the best instrument to purchase for my task. Also, I will call the water tank manufacturer [Gould] and see if they can sahed any more light in the model motor/pump I have [ it is not listed in the repoty I have].

 

[NHmaster3015]

why devote so much time to investigating what you have? It's bad, replace it.

 

[paul06]

Thanks for your reply Wally Hays. In a perfect world calling a well repairman would be thing to do and without knowing anything about wells trust him to do the right thing. Even on this forum, I have seen dicussions on well controntactors; both good and bad ones out there. My aim with is to know the basics so I can converse intelligently with a contractor, and also know when he is doing a great and honest thing or using me as a cash cow and charging me for work/parts not done/replaced. I am not a well contractor and will never be one. However I believe a little knowledge never hurt anybody. I have learned alot from this forum and was lucky to find a place where there are so many knowledgeable people to guide those who are not so gifted in this area of expertise.

 

[Ballvalve]

do the final testing, and if the motor winding specs are close to norm, let it run for awhile on 12 amps. In the meantime, stock a replacement pump or motor - with this dead economy, you can get some bargains.

Also, while the motor is running at 12 amps, slowly throttle back the outflow if possible, and see if the amps drop to 10 or 11. Perhaps your pump is outside its "curve"

I like the investigating method too.

 

[NHmaster3015]

Sometimes you got to go all the way back to the start

Hi:
This is my first post on this forum. I am a home owner and a fairly good DIYer. Here is my story:

Just when you think you have the world by the horns and are comfortable in your ability to handle maintenance around the home, WHAM ! something happens that you know nothing about. It is my well water system. I am trying to glean as much information about this as I can. Two days ago, I lost my water supply. I went out and flicked the breakers and pushed the reset button on the bottom of the control box. I had water. I was so proud of myself. Hours later, the water quit again. I called the person who put in the pump [2-16-2004]. He said that my control box was bad and had to be replaced. He did that. However, he said there is a problem. The amp reading from the control box was 12.0 . He said that usually it was around 10 to 11. The control box had a max of 11.5. I asked him what all that meant. He said that the motor was going bad. I do feel that working on the well is a job of a pro; however I like to know what he is talking about, so I have browsed the internet and found this forum . If you could help me understand all of this; Does this reading mean the motor IS BAD or could there possibly be other things that I should be looked at before having the motor replaced, which I understand is major job. What should I do. Thank you. PS I have pix and will try to upload them. If the are not sharp enough to be read, I can give you a higher resolution. Thanks again

It's a bad pump. It may limp along for a week or two but it's just gonna fry another control box.
Change the pump. How much research do you need. Pull it out of the hole and throw the same size pump back down. Hell, how long has that one been down there operating just fine?

 

[Ballvalve]

That pump may have always pulled 12 amps if its not sized right for the well, or if it has some leakage in the drop wires. Nobody wrote down the running amps on the panel at the day of install like they should have.

That box has a lot of overcapacity, and especially if it has a contactor, the 12 amps wont do it any harm in the short term. If he just pulls and swaps the same pump
without careful reading of a pump curve for his application, he may have the surprise of the new one pulling 12 amps too. At least I would valve down the outflow to 1GPM and hold the pressure switch closed, then check running amps. Give us a report.

Dont do it for long, as your pressure may get too high. Also that box has an overload, and if its not popping, you have time to do the research.

 

[NHmaster3015]

Ok BV but you are missing the rest of the post. He switched out the control box and the pump quit after that. I would probably leave it alone also if it was not dropping out

 

[paul06]

Ok BV but you are missing the rest of the post. He switched out the control box and the pump quit after that. I would probably leave it alone also if it was not dropping out

Here is what I said on my first post
Quote" called the person who put in the pump [2-16-2004]. He said that my control box was bad and had to be replaced. He did that. However, he said there is a problem. The amp reading from the control box was 12.0 . He said that usually it was around 10 to 11. The control box had a max of 11.5. I asked him what all that meant. He said that the motor was going bad. Quote"

The water did not quit a second time. he just said the amps were high
Paul

 

[paul06]

That pump may have always pulled 12 amps if its not sized right for the well, or if it has some leakage in the drop wires. Nobody wrote down the running amps on the panel at the day of install like they should have.

That box has a lot of overcapacity, and especially if it has a contactor, the 12 amps wont do it any harm in the short term. If he just pulls and swaps the same pump
without careful reading of a pump curve for his application, he may have the surprise of the new one pulling 12 amps too. At least I would valve down the outflow to 1GPM and hold the pressure switch closed, then check running amps. Give us a report.

Dont do it for long, as your pressure may get too high. Also that box has an overload, and if its not popping, you have time to do the research.

Interesting theory. If I may ask! How do I "Valve down the outflow to 1 GPM" I can hold the pressure switch closed as I see the plate the opens
and closes. I can do the amp check from the pressure switch or control box [does it make a difference?
Paul

 

[Texas Wellman]

I agree with Ballvalve. The pump may be oversized, pumping out more water than it was designed for, which in turn would pull higher amps.

To valve it off install a discharge valve at the pump outlet and pinch it down while reading an amp-meter. If the amps drop down to an acceptable level then you're probably okay. If they rise even a little bit your motor is bad and should be replaced pronto.

Please note that you run the risk of dead-heading your pump, blowing your control box again, or over-pressuring your system if you don't know what you're doing. Or you could electrocute yourself.

I would just leave it alone and watch it for a few weeks and see if it holds. If it gives any more problems pull and replace. Although you can bet that when it does go out it will be on a Friday or Sat. nite.

Good luck.