Dishwasher Too Far from Sink? Need backup plans.

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tnichols

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Hello All,

I just purchased a new 18" GE dishwasher to put in a very small kitchen. The only place I could squeeze it in is next to a stove, a corner cabinet, and then the sink. I laid out a hose to get the accurate length for installation of the dishwasher. From the disposal, over cabinet (high loop), around the corner cabinet, behind the stove, to the dishwasher is 12 feet. But the GE dishwasher installation manual says not to exceed 10 feet. Should I worry about this? The manual says the dishwasher will not drain properly if the drain hose is more than 10'.

I did notice that the Bosch 18" dishwasher allows a 12' (150") drain line. Maybe I should cancel my GE order and go with the Bosch?

One other thought was to install a Air Gap (not required in my area). The run to the Air Gap would be about 10'. Then there would be a 2' down hill run to the disposal. Would this save me 2' or would the line from the Air Gap to the disposal still need to be counted?

I do have a basement and could run a separate drain line, but that is a lot of extra work.

:confused:

This is the model I put on order:

http://products.geappliances.com/ApplProducts/Dispatcher?REQUEST=SpecPage&Sku=PDW1800NWW

This is the installation manual:

http://products.geappliances.com/Ma...er?RequestType=PDF&Name=08C_2514 31_30242.pdf

Thanks,
 
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Gary Swart

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If you have the space, I'd suggest the Bosch. I find them to be a very fine product. A separate drain line would require venting and a trap so I would avoid that for sure. The GE might very well work with the extra 2 feet and the air gap would be a good idea anyway.
 

tnichols

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If you have the space, I'd suggest the Bosch. I find them to be a very fine product. A separate drain line would require venting and a trap so I would avoid that for sure. The GE might very well work with the extra 2 feet and the air gap would be a good idea anyway.

Thanks, I will check into the Bosch... I seem to remember the Bosch was over $300 more than the GE (counting rebates and all). And they already charge a hefty premium on those 18" dishwashers. Even with the 18" dishwasher, when the door open, I will not be able to open the refrigerator at the same time. It really is a small kitchen.
 

Jadnashua

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The total run length would probably work out to the air gap...from that point on, it is gravity draining, and doesn't rely on the pump to get it further, only to the air gap.
 

Hackney plumbing

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When the dishwasher hoses leaves the unit,immediately turn the drain hose up and run it to the bottom of the cabinet top.......MAKE THIS THE HIGHEST POINT IN THE DRAIN. From this point on make a uniform slope DOWN to the drain, not allowing the hose to sag AT ALL. You could even use pipe instead of hose,which I think would be better. I'd use pex. This will allow a gradual bend around the corner and maintain the downward slope. Do not use any pex fittings.....make it all one piece.
 

tnichols

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I just called GE today and they suggested that I cancel the order. They said they will not support any dishwasher installed incorrectly and installing it with a drain hose greater than 10' is incorrect. They will not service the unit. They will not honor the warranty on any unit installed incorrectly.

The Bosch unit will cost $300 more and goes 12'. So now do I take the gamble and hope the GE works and $300 or do I play it safe and spend an extra $300 for the Bosch??? Decisions, decisions, decisions...

I am thinking maybe washing dishes by hand is not a bad thing:(
 

Hackney plumbing

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I just called GE today and they suggested that I cancel the order. They said they will not support any dishwasher installed incorrectly and installing it with a drain hose greater than 10' is incorrect. They will not service the unit. They will not honor the warranty on any unit installed incorrectly.

The Bosch unit will cost $300 more and goes 12'. So now do I take the gamble and hope the GE works and $300 or do I play it safe and spend an extra $300 for the Bosch??? Decisions, decisions, decisions...

I am thinking maybe washing dishes by hand is not a bad thing:(

Maybe a plumber could install a pipe closer to the dishwasher for you to meet the 10' rule. BUT if GE didn't specify that the drain hose follow a particular slope toward the drain but rather simply stated "10 feet" any ole way you want to run the hose.I assure you installing it like I outlined above will work perfectly.

My way puts WAY less strain on the pump. Infact you could even go further if you could maintain a downward slope.

I'm not telling YOU to "nevermind" the instructions. I'm simply stating what I would do in my house. Never use a dishwasher as a place to store clean dishes.
 

Jadnashua

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The air gap, from the DW viewpoint, IS the end of where it has to pump. From that point on, it's all gravity, and the pump's work has nothing to do about it. Effectively, from the DS, that is the end of the run. But, if GE is going to be that way, you'd be better off with one that will work. Now, it's unlikely that they'd actually measure the hose, especially if there were no visible extender fittings showing, which there wouldn't be with an air gap.

While a high loop can work to minimize the possibility of contamination of the DW by a backup in the lines, an air gap is 100%, while a high loop never will be. All commercial DW are required to have an air gap, and they are required in many places in homes as well.
 

tnichols

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The air gap, from the DW viewpoint, IS the end of where it has to pump. From that point on, it's all gravity, and the pump's work has nothing to do about it. Effectively, from the DS, that is the end of the run. But, if GE is going to be that way, you'd be better off with one that will work. Now, it's unlikely that they'd actually measure the hose, especially if there were no visible extender fittings showing, which there wouldn't be with an air gap.

While a high loop can work to minimize the possibility of contamination of the DW by a backup in the lines, an air gap is 100%, while a high loop never will be. All commercial DW are required to have an air gap, and they are required in many places in homes as well.

Thank you Jim DeBruycker!

That is the answer I was looking for.
 

rick52768

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Sorry to stir up this old post, but I have a distance issue with my dishwasher and I need a little guidance. My dishwasher has never worked correctly. Most of the time resulting in dirtier dishes. I could go through all of the improvements and solutions I have tried but I believe the 12' distance is true final issue. The drain pump output points to the right, the sink is to the left on an angle to the left away from the dishwasher, the drain hose runs low and through the a cabinet between the sink and dishwasher and has been extended to reach the air gap which is on the far left of the sink which runs through a granite countertop (not moving the air gap location). Master of run-on sentences. So I want to try Hackney Plumbing idea of moving the highest point in the drain line closest to the pump when it is the strongest. My question is should my drain line be straight (not dipping) after going the highest possible point near the pump or dip downward as Hackney said? Keeping in mind that my setup has an air gap ( truly the highest point). I am also thinking about putting the drain from the air gap into non-disposal tail piece then into the disposal on my double bowl sink as well. Thoughts?
 

Terry

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Once you go gravity, it will need to grade downward.
A 7/8" hose is only so good, and I certainly would not run more than 24" of it.

The more hose you have extended from the dishwasher, the more goo that can drain back to the dishwasher when the pump stops. I have seen non-air-gaped dishwashers almost fill to the point of overflow between uses from the kitchen sink.
 

tnichols

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Just to give you all an update. I decided to stick with the GE 18" dishwasher. I just hooked it up with a 12' - 14' hose and it works fine. I am not using any air gap device. From the dishwasher, the hose runs behind the stove, around a corner cabinet, up to a high point and then into the garbage disposal. We had it installed for about 2 years now and so far so good.
 

rick52768

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Goo going back into the dishwasher is my issue. They extended the factory dishwasher line with 5/8" hose which is 42" long. The air gap drains to the disposal using 7/8" hose. I forgot to add that my pump (Johnson SN-3125) from my Frigidaire has a okay at best back flow valve (rubber flap). Could I put a better one inline and if so should it be right after the pump? I have included a crude drawing of what I was asking about as to the slope. Terry, why do you say the 7/8" is only so good? Is there a better hose to replace the original? dishwasher?
slope or not2.jpg
 

Terry

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7/8" is the gravity side of the air-gap.
It's not under pressure from the pump, so if it gets caked up, it overflows the air gap.
 

rick52768

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7/8" is the gravity side of the air-gap.
It's not under pressure from the pump, so if it gets caked up, it overflows the air gap.
I see what you mean now. The run of 7/8" is pretty short and with a extra deep sink has a good amount of slope. What about downward slope or straight (no slope) as shown in my drawing because I have air gap? Which is easy for the pump in keeping dirty water from returning to the dishwasher? Adding a check valve make sense? Sorry to be asking so many questions, just trying to do the best to solve the issues I have been dealt.
 
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