Did I get ripped off with new water heater?

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Mike50

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Spend a few minutes looking over Matt Michel's Service Roundtable organization and you'll be amazed. It is truly unbelievable and I'm thinking this may be a real entertainment value I should consider. OMG

AFAIAC if the 50 dollars includes a daily wakeup call...count me in dammit.
 
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Cass

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hj said:
5 to 6 hours to install a 50 gallon water heater? If I cannot install the new one in about the same time the old one finishes draining, I usually consider it a "tough" job.

Agree with you hj,

I just wanted to give him time to do the job right :) and see what the charge would be for that much time.

I have a feeling we won't hear from him on this issue, but maybe he'll prove me wrong.

I'm guessing for that price he is waxing the WH, and having the floors professionaly cleaned and sealed. Maybe painting the walls also.
 

Cal

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Fellas,

I live in the North East / Northern Virginia / Maryland /Wash.D.C. area as does the original poster on this issue. Yeah,,I do think $1299 is HIGH for a 50 gal /elec......

BUT, let me say this ,,IF you don't live here and have to pay the taxes and other EXUBERANT prices we do then , no one has a real bases to speak to the price.

I think $ 950 to $1050 would be the right price, NOT $ 600-$650. Believe me this plumber would be out of buisness in 3 months.You CANNOT survive here on that little for jobs.

Hell my house assesment went up $ 90K from last year. So everybody says," That's great ! Your house is worth alot more " Yeah, but I still gotta live here AND pay the xtra taxes . It is NOt easy for any of us plumbers , but priceing cannot be the same nation wide.

My service rate ,1st 1/2 hour = $105 and I'm considered CHEAP ! I charge that and still think I'm high,,,,, The system is out of whack !

Cal
 

Cass

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Yes there may be places that the rates are very high, but that is not the general rule.

Malder must be very buisy installing, the $1,299.00 and HIGHER he said, water heaters as he hasn't responded to any one yet.

He mentioned he had repete customers.

I do beleive him.

I wonder if he would honestly tell us what the ratio of repete customers to 1 time customers was.

Mr. Malder here is another interesting question for you IF you can answer it.

What would you consider a extremely high price for installing a water heater?

I bet you can't answer this one.
 
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Master Plumber Mark

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mr malder

I think you will find he just blew
through here to promote a web site ho owns
that basically costs $50 per month to
be a member of...


I went their an d looked some of it over......the free stuff...
not too bad, but nothing I hve not heard before........
wether any of the information is worth a nickle or not
remains to be seen....

no will he get $50 bucks out of me to tell me how
to sell water heaters for $1500 ,

well .........maybe for one month.... just to satisify my
curousity.
 
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Mike50

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master plumber mark said:
I think you will find he just blew
through here to promote a web site ho owns
that basically costs $50 per month to
be a member of...


I went their an d looked some of it over......the free stuff...
not too bad, but nothing I hve not heard before........
wether any of the information is worth a nickle or not
remains to be seen....

no will he get $50 bucks out of me to tell me how
to sell water heaters for $1500 ,

well .........maybe for one month.... just to satisify my
curousity.


I'm not a plumber but I got more and more curious with each page of that website I read...then I googled the guy. I haven't seen that much bullshit in one place in a long time.

He makes some outrageous claims. I read for about 20 minutes and I could not find what they give you for 50 bucks.
I know some of you guys make some good money-and you earn every cent imo.
Mr. Michel claims he has an enormous membership base (cant recall the figure) and goes on to say that the average individual member (not company) grosses 1.8 million per year in income. That's a pretty interesting figure because I know some do. average?

As in my profession I'm sure there are some guys out there struggling as well.


In any event, the whole thing walks like a duck. I will say one thing for the guy-he knows how to feed search engines. It's all over... :D
 
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Cass

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Had a call from a customer today. Her sister had just been quoted $1350.00 to have a 40 gal. gas water heater installed and would I go look at the job and give a estimate.

I went and customer stated that he had used the hose and watered the lawn for 1/2 hour came in and 2 hrs later noticed that the rug was wet. Called this plumber and when he got there explained to the plumber what happened.

The plumber said it couldn't be the hose bib as the wall would be soaked and he had seen that a 100 times that the water heater just expelled gallons of water but he couldn't tell from where but that it definately was the water heater and it needed to be replaced.

I said to him you stand here ( inside the house by the hose bib) I turned on the hose bib for about 2 seconds and you could hear the water running, so could he.

Needsless to say I gained a new customer.
 

dave007

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i knew i should have listened to my daddy and become a plumber.
I'd be retired at 45.

$1200 for a water heater install........
you can buy all tha parts at home depot for less than $300.
 

Dubldare

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(Not to make light of your predicament, but I have to vent a bit.)

Yeah, but for $1200 you probably get some guy who has been a plumber for 3 weeks to do the job for ya. He's watched all the videotapes, so he's qualified. Plus, he has a photo id/nametag, AND he wears nice booties over his tennis shoes. Yeah, he spends a long time on the phone while he's there (asking questions) but you percieve that as him being 'a man in demand'. When he got done you probably got a buttload of coupons for future use, a nice magnet for your fridge, a bunch of tags on the valves in your house along with a mint on your pillow. Heck, it wouldn't surprise me if they put a sign in your front yard.

Unless you had this heater replaced on a weekend, you should've also gotten a nice, soothing suppository and ointment for your bum.

But you were probably just blown away by "the water heater is a major appliance in your home" shpiel, or the "we can juggle some jobs around and get there right away", as well as the upfront pricing you were provided.

A simple 40 gal gas replacement should run 3 hours, slightly more if the call did not come in as a wh changeout. The very top, difficult changeout, would run 5 hours, but that is very rare. Where I work, if the heater isn't drained by the time we're done with the install, we'll send a couple of runners out later to get it.

BTW, was the installation inspected?



I know how upfront pricing for the most part screws the customer. I've made the mistake of taking some vehicles in for service. While it's very rare to pay more than what you're quoted, if you break it down, you're getting hosed sometimes. But, that's the price you pay for a quote. Espescially when you factor in that in many cases there is a commission involved. Some plumbers are paid a base wage (very low) plus a commission on sales. They only make money on $$$ sales, not on repairs.

Too many times when I've verbally ballparked a job for, let's say, $400 to $600, and the price comes out to $500, all the customer can remember is $400, so they're now pissed, even though they were billed t&m.

It's a total psychological game. I guess you look like the good guy if you play off someone's fear (of paying too much) by giving them an astronomical, up front number, to ease their mind of paying what it actually takes to do the job. That is unless you have a smart customer who is capable of simple division.
 
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Master Plumber Mark

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very well stated.....

that was a very good oratory...

with the big comission companies, its all smoke and morrors....

that is what the customer wants these days.....
Their EGO STROKED---they would rather pay a ton of money
and get some sweet smelling guy waling in their house
like a butler to serve them.....

price is no object to some and that is
who they are trying to cater to.

their are people in our town that actually call the
most expensive plumbers because they want to show
all the other neighbors around them that they can actually afford them....



I usually give my estimates to people with a

"not to exceed price" If I ballpark it at 400, I usually mnetion
if for unforseen reasons the price wont exceed this much..

it seems to make them happy.
 
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Cass

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The company that quoted the $1350.00 works on a split commission. The labor charge above the material costs is split with the owner of the company.
 

Canton

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water heater

I charge $250 for a water heater install, plus the cost of the w.h and a 20% markup on the supplies. It usually takes me about 3 hrs, everyone's happy.
 

Dunbar Plumbing

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I quit doing water heater replacements all together. Tired of the price shopping.

You win price shoppers, you happy now?

My answer now is "We're not available." I then give a number to someone who has the patience to deal with it. Some actually sound disappointed that I won't do it. Only for the reason that I was referred to them or someone has told them about my professionalism.

That is when I throw the evil grin as I say goodbye on the phone. Feels good that I can toss those calls that never seems to be worth the trouble. My back thanks me as well for no more torture pulling those up and down steps or putting them in the truck.




FREEDOM!
 

Master Plumber Mark

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water heaters are my cash cow

do whatever floats your boat....

though I agree with you to a point ,
I turn down some that are trying to haggel
with me about price and brand...

thats why I set up my web site ----they see all the complaints
for themselves on line then its real to them....
then they know I am not just leiing to them...
------------------------------------------------------------

I would rather put in three heaters a day than crawl around in
crap, or clean out sewers ankle deep in fun..

....or wrench my neck out of socket trying
to repalce a kitchen faucet in a cock roach ridden kitchen sink....

or get screwed over for 12k by some dis-honest builder woh wont
pay for the plumbing system I installed for him...

-------------------------------------------------------------------

their are far , far worse jobs....
and actually if someone wants me to come out
and install some piece of junk they bought at LOWEs,

its no big deal because I will still get about 250 if they want to
pay it.. its just another customer to me...

Its just another place I can plaster my name all over all their
appliances for the future repairs.....I have about 175,000 stickers out
their on furnaces , water heaters, disposals ect
just waiting for troubles to start.



today I am putitng in two gas for about 745 each....


I average 2 a day--- and thats more than many peopel make in a
full week of work....


I know sometimes its hard to do
but try to be grateful
 
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Dunbar Plumbing

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I wrote a long-winded response earlier today to this topic and the server this site is on froze up again. :mad: :mad:


Long story short. I don't do the nasty calls anymore, I have a large call volume that allows me to pick and choose my battles. I'm not going to risk a body injury over a water heater install anymore. Customers know that it is more grunt work than it is knowledge on how to replace (4 connections most times) a water heater. I worked for an outfit where we installed 2 to 5 water heaters a day. I did that for a year and I'm sure I didn't do myself any favors cranking dielectrics down all the time. I know a guy who did it every day for 6 years and now he's disabled. I can't ruin a good thing right now.

I paid my dues and now it's okay to let the competition win the hemorrhoid award.
 
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Rdtompki

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I'm a typical consumer with some DIY skill, but a lot of DIY experience. A water heater installation is not the sort of thing I would get multiple quotes for. It's easy enough to research the cost of the unit. You're going to pay a markup on top of that . When you call the plumber to get an estimate ask the cost and how long it will take. If the labor sounds high, then try someone else. You need to take into account that you're paying for the tradesmans transit time. A water heater install may only be 3 hours, but time to/from the site might have been a total of an hour. If you're in a high cost of living area, then you're going to pay more. BTW, I did install a gas water heater myself, but I would have paid $300 in a heartbeat to have someone else do it.
 

Dunbar Plumbing

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abikerboy,


Your purchase/installation of a water heater for that price with the commitment of coming back twice a year for the next 5 years @ no charge is not financial common sense for the one offering it. Now if he lives down the street from you that is one thing, but I can never offer anything like that without considering myself either desperate or willing to work for a reduced rate so low that I might as well be working @ Lowe's for 7 bucks an hour. When you figure in the costs incurred for his time over the next 5 years including the initial install, he's not making profit, he's just turning numbers. It's good you found someone like this. You can benefit from his work practices.

If I put in a water heater and had just one callback, my time is just the same as a 1 trip service call which equates to around $100. If I put the heater in for a set price below the hourly average I make, then of course I've slashed my throat on the profit margin.

I offer my customers a follow-up letter after the 1st year anniversary of WH replacement for instructions how-to drain the water heater or the charge of $49 to come out and drain it. The ratio is 1 out of 10 that call me to do the drain-down but it pays for the expense of those 10 letters. And most times it's "while you're here would you take care of this" situation that unfolds and combines the charges to make it a worthwhile visit.

Giving plumbing services away sets you up to be taken advantage of your kindness towards others. I don't expect those who pay me for my time to go to work and not get paid for what they earn, they shouldn't expect it from me as well.
 

Dunbar Plumbing

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He charged $454 for labor which includes the extended warranty

He charged $275 for the heater, he might of had some profit hidden in that number, maybe

You mentioned he gave materials away, pan, pipe/fittings > Figure $30

Including the initial install, he committed to coming out 10 more times which gives a total of 11 visits to your home.

If you divide $450 by 11 visits it will equate to $40.91 BEFORE TAXES, before accounting for hours involved driving to and from, the initial install, and time to do whatever might occur/required maintenance in those 5 years. And what happens if the tank busts???????? He eats the price of that install? Sheesh!!!!!!!! :eek: :eek: Only if he is an authorized rep for that product he installed will he be covered for his time.Otherwise, he's lost his gamble on the bet that the heater will last beyond that 5 years and I've put my hands on a few water heaters that were screwing up/leaking before their warranty expired. The materials for that install was at least $30 figuring a set of dielectrics, little bit of copper pipe and fittings, the pan along with PVC pipe and fittings to get to the drain. That I did not remove from the total price but if your numbers are tight, subtract another $2.72 from the $40.91 above.
Gimme this guy's number. He can do my plumbing cheaper than I can do even my own!:rolleyes:

The real truth is, he's working for around $20 an hour giving work away like that. Send him christmas cards and birthday cards to his children all the time for such charity. He deserves it.
 
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