Design looks bad but will it work?

[Bigdipper]

Nut, my experience is that most *not all* big box employees think they know a trade just because that's the department they work in.

One tried to tell my brother his 1/2 bath install was all wrong....
That was my design and I make above average pay doing design for a living.

I thought that might be the case. The guy did actually say he was a licensed plumber working at a large facility doing maintenance.

Did you see the latest, I used the washer to clear the vent. It was the only fixture that was on a wall that I could move to gain access between the floor joists. I also replaced a lot of the 90%, I just hope two 45% are better.

 

[FloridaOrange]

I thought that might be the case. The guy didn't actually said he was a licensed plumber working at a large facility doing maintenance.

Did you see the latest, I used the washer to clear the vent. It was the only fixture that was on a wall that I could move to gain access between the floor joists. I also replaced a lot of the 90%, I just hope two 45% are better.

The guy who tried to change my brothers stuff "father was a pipefitter". That made him an expert.

I saw but I'm doing a commando visit -- got a 2 yr old with the flu and a wife who's calling me. I'll check later.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[hj]

Dwv

It looks like it should work, but still seems to have more fittings than necessary, but cannot tell without being there. Ask the aisle guys at HD and Lowes where to find screws, NOT how to install plumbing. If they actually knew how to, they would not be working at HD or Lowes. And as far as the difference between a plumber and a steamfitter is that the plumber has to know which way water flows and when it is pay day, The steam fitting just has to know when pay day is, because he pumps his water to get rid of it.

 

[Doherty Plumbing]

Would your code allow this:

Where I am from this would be perfectly acceptable. On a 3" wet vent you are allowed to drain up to 8 fixture units.

The toilet doesn't count on the load so you have:

Washing machine: 1.5 Fixture units
Shower: 1.5 Fixture Units
Lavatory: 1 Fixture Unit

4 Fixture units total.

This method will save you lots of venting heh.

Ofcourse up here we are limited to 6' trap arms (the length of pipe from the trap to where it ties into a vent). So as long as you can keep these 1.5 fixture unit fixtures to less than 6' trap arms this method will work perfectly for you.

If you are unable to keep the lavatory trap arm under 6' then you can tie it in after the toilet and separately vent it like you are originally planning.

 

[FloridaOrange]

That would work all day long however - In the FPC they have a thing against mixing bathroom and non-bathroom fixtures on a wet vent.

909.1 Horizontal wet vent permitted. Any combination of fixtures within two bathroom groups located on the same floor level is permitted to be vented by a horizontal wet vent. The wet vent shall be considered the vent for the fixtures and shall extend from the connection of the dry vent along the direction of the flow in the drain pipe to the most downstream fixture drain connection to the horizontal branch drain. Only the fixtures within the bathroom groups shall connect to the wet-vented horizontal branch drain. Any additional fixtures shall discharge downstream of the horizontal wet vent.

The highlighted part is the reference. I've had to have the plumber tie in below a bathroom with a 2" run for 10 feet just to put a drinking fountain on the same wall as the lavatory sits. Don't know how much they may or may not enforce it where you are. Just curious, your not in Lee County are you?

 

[Bigdipper]

Nut, my experience is that most *not all* big box employees think they know a trade just because that's the department they work in.

One tried to tell my brother his 1/2 bath install was all wrong....
That was my design and I make above average pay doing design for a living.

I have a feeling your going to say I have a problem using the washing machine to wash out the vent above the toilet. I remember in one the threads they talked about bath group and laundry group and whether you could attach them down stream, or something like that.

If that's true, I may need to drill a 2" hole through one of the floor joists and finally give in to the fact that the shower drain for wash out is the only way. That's the one thing I've tried to avoid, putting a hole in a floor joist but it is what it is.

 

[Bigdipper]

That would work all day long however - In the FPC they have a thing against mixing bathroom and non-bathroom fixtures on a wet vent.



The highlighted part is the reference. I've had to have the plumber tie in below a bathroom with a 2" run for 10 feet just to put a drinking fountain on the same wall as the lavatory sits. Don't know how much they may or may not enforce it where you are. Just curious, your not in Lee County are you?

Wow you answered before I had a chance to spell check my suspicion....

What about the hole in the joist to bring in the shower as a wash out...will they allow that here in FLA? My Dad said the only way to avoid drilling the joist is to remove the sanity Tee that I had intended to bring the laundry wash and replace it with a 3/3/3 WYE on it's side with a 45% up to the vent and at the open end reduce it and pick up the 2" shower.

 

[Bigdipper]

Would your code allow this:

Where I am from this would be perfectly acceptable. On a 3" wet vent you are allowed to drain up to 8 fixture units.

The toilet doesn't count on the load so you have:

Washing machine: 1.5 Fixture units
Shower: 1.5 Fixture Units
Lavatory: 1 Fixture Unit

4 Fixture units total.

This method will save you lots of venting heh.

Ofcourse up here we are limited to 6' trap arms (the length of pipe from the trap to where it ties into a vent). So as long as you can keep these 1.5 fixture unit fixtures to less than 6' trap arms this method will work perfectly for you.

If you are unable to keep the lavatory trap arm under 6' then you can tie it in after the toilet and separately vent it like you are originally planning.

It would work all day but the inspection department here would likely nix it. Orange is right!

 

[FloridaOrange]

remove the sanity Tee that I had intended to bring the laundry wash and replace it with a 3/3/3 WYE on it's side with a 45% up to the vent and at the open end reduce it and pick up the 2" shower.

You lost me, my brain may have headed off to bed before the rest of me.

 

[Bigdipper]

It looks like it should work, but still seems to have more fittings than necessary, but cannot tell without being there. Ask the aisle guys at HD and Lowes where to find screws, NOT how to install plumbing. If they actually knew how to, they would not be working at HD or Lowes. And as far as the difference between a plumber and a steamfitter is that the plumber has to know which way water flows and when it is pay day, The steam fitting just has to know when pay day is, because he pumps his water to get rid of it.

I know there’s a lot of fittings, it's one long run of fittings. If they were different colors it would look like a rubiks cube. Considering the Florida Orange pointed out that the washer can't be used as a wash out because it’s not in the bath group.... Can I use a WYE on it's side with a 45% to pick up the vertical vent and then run the shower in the open end with an adapter?

 

[Bigdipper]

You lost me, my brain may have headed off to bed before the rest of me.

At the end where I tie the drain to the vertical vent in my drawing, I used two 45% and a Tee that was meant to bring in the laundry as a wash out.

Remove both 45%'s and the Tee.

Replace with a 3 inch WYE horizontally, add a 45% to attach to the vent. At the open end put an adapter for 2" and bring the shower in there. This way I can drop the shower trap down lower to clear the floor joist and bring it in at the end as a wash out.

 

[Doherty Plumbing]

That would work all day long however - In the FPC they have a thing against mixing bathroom and non-bathroom fixtures on a wet vent.

909.1 Horizontal wet vent permitted. Any combination of fixtures within two bathroom groups located on the same floor level is permitted to be vented by a horizontal wet vent. The wet vent shall be considered the vent for the fixtures and shall extend from the connection of the dry vent along the direction of the flow in the drain pipe to the most downstream fixture drain connection to the horizontal branch drain. Only the fixtures within the bathroom groups shall connect to the wet-vented horizontal branch drain. Any additional fixtures shall discharge downstream of the horizontal wet vent.

The highlighted part is the reference. I've had to have the plumber tie in below a bathroom with a 2" run for 10 feet just to put a drinking fountain on the same wall as the lavatory sits. Don't know how much they may or may not enforce it where you are. Just curious, your not in Lee County are you?

There is nothing in that code clause that makes me think my method wouldn't be acceptable to you guys.

The only thing tying in on the horizontal section of the wet vent is the bathroom group. It doesn't say the wet vent needs to be "wet" from a fixture in the bathroom group. It just says you can only drain fixtures from a bathroom group in to the horizontal section.

I would argue this point with the inspector if he made an issue of it.

 

[Bigdipper]

There is nothing in that code clause that makes me think my method wouldn't be acceptable to you guys.

The only thing tying in on the horizontal section of the wet vent is the bathroom group. It doesn't say the wet vent needs to be "wet" from a fixture in the bathroom group. It just says you can only drain fixtures from a bathroom group in to the horizontal section.

I would argue this point with the inspector if he made an issue of it.

That's a good point and believe me if push comes to shove, that's what I'll do.

If I can take a route that's more black and white I'll take it just to avoid confrontation because I'm already pushing it with my cleanout location, and that I can not change. In Pinellas County Florida the codes and inspectors can be difficult and logic has nothing to do with it.

 

[Doherty Plumbing]

That's a good point and believe me if push comes to shove, that's what I'll do.

If I can take a route that's more black and white I'll take it just to avoid confrontation because I'm already pushing it with my cleanout location, and that I can not change. In Pinellas County Florida the codes and inspectors can be difficult and logic has nothing to do with it.

The code clause reads as it reads. You need to make him see your way of interpreting that code clause. And I don't think what I suggested is too far out there.

If you're able too you should put a cleanout on the 3" vent as it comes through the floor. Not necessarily for code satisfaction but for ease of access if you ever have a plugged main! You can put an access panel or grill over it to cover it up for aesthetics.

 

[Bigdipper]

The code clause reads as it reads. You need to make him see your way of interpreting that code clause. And I don't think what I suggested is too far out there.

If you're able too you should put a cleanout on the 3" vent as it comes through the floor. Not necessarily for code satisfaction but for ease of access if you ever have a plugged main! You can put an access panel or grill over it to cover it up for aesthetics.

The cleanout was a great suggestion. My drawing is crappy so it's hard to identify but it's there on the vent at the floor height just above the bend.

It will open to the back side of the wet wall inside a closet.

 

[Doherty Plumbing]

The cleanout was a great suggestion. My drawing is crappy so it's hard to identify but it's there on the vent at the floor height just above the bend.

It will open to the back side of the wet wall inside a closet.

Great idea!!!!

 

[Bigdipper]

Great idea!!!!

First, I love the cleanout in the closet idea. Question, since I put one in the closet do I still need a clean down line where it comes up from the slab floor too? Or is the one in the closet enough? If I pull it out the only problem I can see is if the inspector asks me do a water test and there's no place to insert the balloon...

 

[Doherty Plumbing]

First, I love the cleanout in the closet idea. Question, since I put one in the closet do I still need a clean down line where it comes up from the slab floor too? Or is the one in the closet enough? If I pull it out the only problem I can see is if the inspector asks me do a water test and there's no place to insert the balloon...

Usually those cleanouts that are basically inaccessible are there to appease the inspector. They really serve no other purpose. For the cost of the fitting I'd put one in just in case the inspector wants to see one there.

But you'll never use it.

 

[Bigdipper]

It looks like it should work, but still seems to have more fittings than necessary, but cannot tell without being there. Ask the aisle guys at HD and Lowes where to find screws, NOT how to install plumbing. If they actually knew how to, they would not be working at HD or Lowes. And as far as the difference between a plumber and a steamfitter is that the plumber has to know which way water flows and when it is pay day, The steam fitting just has to know when pay day is, because he pumps his water to get rid of it.

This is what I've got, this time it's not glued but will it work?. The top right has some blow ups. I didn't have the room to use the washer as the washout after all so I ran the sink around and brought it in from the backside to wash the vent (See pic).

The problem is the space is confined and the horizontal too short to attach anything more without making all fittings.

If the wash out is NG I'll need to go back to the old idea of two 45% at the base of the vent with a tee. I’ll then drill everything necessary to drop the shower drain into it. Question, if I everything has it's own vent, do I still need to run a wash out through the vent?

BTW there is another 2 inch pipe sticking up from the slab off to the bottom left corner (out of sight was old washer drain). If need be I could attach the sink to that so that both the washer and sink drain into it and have their own vent.

 

[Bigdipper]

You lost me, my brain may have headed off to bed before the rest of me.

You live in Florida and you know the inspectors here are brutal. I want you opinion.