Deep well system problem.

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog. Water is life.' started by Geoffrey Gee, May 14, 2020.

  1. Geoffrey Gee

    Geoffrey Gee New Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2020
    Location:
    Negros OCC, Philippines
    Hi Terry.
    Its been a pleasure reading this forum over the past few weeks, now its my turn to ask for help.
    Live in the Philippines, and at the best of times finding good, knowledgeable help is a big problem, and more so now with the current Virus issue.
    Few months back my deep well system, the pump would run none stop and never reach the cut off pressure, no leaks, new Pressure switch, although the pump would not switch off the pressure in the house at all outlets was good, so after a few very high electrical bills I decided to tackle the problem my self, retired Engineer, and a DIYer, read everything I could find, and came to the conclusion the problem was either the pump or the Foot Valve/check Valve.
    Basically new house, 18 moth old, Well was installed during the building of the house.
    Pump had a cracked vain on the impeller, and after checking, it was a very cheap pump.
    System is a 2" casing pipe, Horizontal 1 hp pump, drop pipe was steel 1" pipe, with either a jet foot valve or just a check valve, casing Pipe 40' down drop pipe approx 35' down, water is approx 20'down.
    Well like everybody else getting the pipe out of the casing pipe, was a night mare, those dam leather Packer washers, finally after 2 days I got the pipe out, minus the Jet valve or check valve, never found out, so I welded and extension to the drop pipe and pushed the valve down into the well.
    New Gould Jet Pump J10+ expensive by Philippine standards, 1.25 PVC piping, with new brass Venturi and foot Valve, New pressure switch, set at 30-60.
    Everything worked out good, system primed straight away, tank filled, quickly, all outlets worked good, we where happy to get a good shower after 2 weeks of showering outside at night.
    Next morning, pressure reading 55ish, first think I noticed having flushed the toilet, the facet in the toilet had no pressure, once the tank was filled the facet was ok, I checked the shower, good plenty of pressure for about 2/3 minutes, and it slowly got slower and slower.
    Went outside to the the pump house, which has beside it a garden facet beside it, so I could see the pressure gauge, pressure gauge is reading approx 55psi, I checked the old pressure gauge on the tank same, so I knew not the gauges, opened the facet, great, tones of pressure for about 2/3 minutes, and it got slower and slower, turn it off, wait just a minute, open and great no problem, same, for about 2/3 minutes.
    During this time I watched the pressure gauge, pump is work good drops to about 30psi, while the facet is open, closed the facet, and straight back up to 55psi.
    If you keep the facet open it will drop down, to no less than 15/20psi, close it ans straight back up.

    My apologize to anyone reading this, for such a long post, but I thought I need to cover everything.

    I am lost, washing machine will not work, shower, well not good.

    Frustrated Geoff.
     
  2. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Pump Controls Technician
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    If it builds to 60 and shuts off when no water is being used, it sounds like the pump is working. It is apparently taking some time to refill the pressure tank, but when the tank is full you have good pressure for a couple minutes until the tank is empty. This sounds like a flow problem with the well. Test the well by pumping straight out for a few minutes, then use a bucket to test the GPM. Wide open from 25' deep that pump should do 12-15 GPM. If you can't get that much flow the well is probably not producing enough water and may have a clogged screen.
     
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  4. Geoffrey Gee

    Geoffrey Gee New Member

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    May 14, 2020
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    Negros OCC, Philippines
    Hi thanks for the reply, at this moment my only comment would be, the tank fill right back up in a matter of seconds, no delay, I am going to do the GPM and let you know what I get.
     
  5. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    What size pressure tank? Can you post a picture of the system?
     
  6. fitter30

    fitter30 Active Member

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  7. Geoffrey Gee

    Geoffrey Gee New Member

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    May 14, 2020
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    Morning please bear in mind this tank like the whole system is only about 18 months old, only reason I change pump, pipe and foot valve was because the system would not switch off and reach max pressure.
     

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  8. Geoffrey Gee

    Geoffrey Gee New Member

    Joined:
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    Negros OCC, Philippines
    Hi Thanks unfortunately I am not an electrician, and to find somebody who is and is willing to come to my house under the present circumstance, Virus, is almost impossible, the pump is plugged into an ordinary 240V outlet.
    The Max Pressure is 50psi pressure switch is preset at 30/50
    As I said in my request for help, I am a retired Engineer, and a DIYer, I was forced to do this project, to stop the huge Electric bills, even when I had installed a basic on off switch, beside the house, to stop the pump from running, 24/7
    Could you please explain 35' down of 15' head.
    Thanks.
     
  9. Geoffrey Gee

    Geoffrey Gee New Member

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    80 Liters = 21US Gallons sorry not sure if you could read that on the tank.
     
  10. kevink1955

    kevink1955 Member

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    Location:
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    Forget about the control box, you have an above ground and it appears to have a new pressure switch on the pump. Control boxes are used on submersible (in well) pumps

    Do a flow test straight off the pump and see if the flow drops off after it is running a few minutes, sounds like a well problem.
     
  11. Geoffrey Gee

    Geoffrey Gee New Member

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    May 14, 2020
    Location:
    Negros OCC, Philippines
    Hi Kevink thanks for the reply, everything helps, I need to buy some black pipe, so I can connect to the pump outlet to check your recommendation, unfortunately I cant do that till Monday my time currently /Saturday Morning 11.00am,) why? because my next Schedule due to the Virus is not till Monday, cant go out till then, let you know once I have done the test.
     
  12. kevink1955

    kevink1955 Member

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    Let us know how the flow test goes, They do not tell us what days we can go out in the US but we have people complaining about closures of non esensal business but in the areas where they opened up restrictions a few days ago the infections are rising again. I am willing to give it a couple more weeks if it keeps us safe. Best wishes for your safety and your well water
     
  13. Geoffrey Gee

    Geoffrey Gee New Member

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    Thank you, this whole thing is scary, what i read about the USA, is very scary, so you take care also, thanks.
     
  14. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Pump Controls Technician
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    If the ejector and foot valve are 20' down the casing the depth to water should not be a problem. However, I still believe you have a flow issue. You can disconnect the union going to the pressure tank. Using a 1 X 3/4 bushing and a 3/4 hose to pipe connector, you should be able to connect a garden hose after the ball valve. Run the hose outside and use the ball valve to throttle the pump and test the well. If you don't get good flow there, you have a problem down the well.
     
  15. Geoffrey Gee

    Geoffrey Gee New Member

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    May 14, 2020
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    Negros OCC, Philippines
    Hi to those people who have offered advise, thank you, however I have more problems, the cast Adapter to the pump and casing is pours, with tiny pin holes, tried to weld, but that makes it worse, and Gould Pumps are of no help at all, I bought one of the most expensive pumps on the market here in the Philippines, once I find another adapter and replace this defective one I will continue where we left off,, again thank you.
     
  16. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Pin holes in such a new pump case are probably caused by cavitation. Pumping the well dry or having a leak in the suction pipe will keep the pump from being able to shut off and cause cavitation that will do that to a pump.
     
  17. Geoffrey Gee

    Geoffrey Gee New Member

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    Good Morning, thank you for the information, everything is most welcome. I would point out that the pump switch on and off no problem, even with the pump off and at the correct switch off pressure, the Cast Adapter housing just leaks everywhere.
     
  18. Geoffrey Gee

    Geoffrey Gee New Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2020
    Location:
    Negros OCC, Philippines
    again to everybody who offered advise thank you, I found a new cast Adapter, and replaced it, no more leaks and the system works fine.
     
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  19. Geoffrey Gee

    Geoffrey Gee New Member

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    May 14, 2020
    Location:
    Negros OCC, Philippines
    Hi well with my deepwell working fine now, I turn to the lot and start on my garden and lawns, so I have a question for you good people I need to add a storage tank to my system with a booster pump, that in its self I dont see a problem, however, I dont want to see the main pump from well to storage tank switching on every time we use water, like a toilet cistern, and of course the booster pump would also run once somebody opens a faucet, or flushes the toilet. is there a better way to control the main pump to the storage tank.
     
  20. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Pump Controls Technician
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    There are a couple of ways. One feeds the cistern tank only, the other allows you to run water directly from the well pump if needed, as well as from the booster in the cistern.

    LOW YIELD WELL_ CENTRIFUGAL_PK1A.jpg

    LOW YIELD WELL_and storage with two PK1A one pipe.jpg
     
  21. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Occupation:
    Pump Controls Technician
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    There are also advantages to using a submersible well pump as a booster and install it inside the cistern.
    LOW YIELD WELL_SUB_PK1A.jpg
     
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