Deep Well System Design

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ElkRock

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New Member Love all the great posts. Big fan of Valveman!
Would like some feedback on proposed well system.
New construction, 4 bedroom, 3.5 bath, just me and the wife, water conservers.
Well just dug by a fantastic well driller who will be giving us an idea of what system to install. But I want to have my own design to bounce of his.

720' deep rotary drilled (air) class 3B well.
10" borehole down to 60'. 6" rest of the way down.
Hit Bedrock at 15'.
6 1/4" PVC Casing down to 60'.
2+ gpm Yield/Recovery
I checked static water level and measured 167'

Total Pump Head: Adding to the elevation head I am adding 160' more of head (friction and psi). So for initial pump turn on at the 167' of static, TPH= 327'.

From what I learned on this forum, and searching the web, and even talking to such folks as Chris Worst (great guy!), here is what I think would be a solid long lasting conventional system:

10GPM 2HP AY McDonald 23000 series (Domestic Stainless Steel) 3 wire.

1 1/4" Schedule 120 drop pipe with tapered threads and stainless elongated couplings.

Flat jacketed electrical wire.

No torque arrestor and no wire standoffs.

No additional check valves beside the internal one in the pump.

No safety wire or rope attached to the pump.
----------------------

81 gal pressure tank such as the Amtrol Well-x-Trol WX-255.

Stainless Steel pressure tank Tee Assembly.
---------------------

Pump depth set, based upon pump curve and shut off head. I would set it at 590' down the well, which is the shutoff head for this pump (590+160).
That would give us about 380 gallons in the bore that could be pumped in the efficient zone alone, from 167' down to 390', from 14gpm down to 7gpm.
If we needed the water from 390' down to 480' we could still use it an only be operating +/- 10% out of BEP (7 to 5 gpm). I would want some kind of shutoff protection at 480', reserving the right to tap into the remaining 480' to 590' in emergencies.
 

Valveman

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New Member Love all the great posts. Big fan of Valveman!
Would like some feedback on proposed well system.
New construction, 4 bedroom, 3.5 bath, just me and the wife, water conservers.
Well just dug by a fantastic well driller who will be giving us an idea of what system to install. But I want to have my own design to bounce of his.

720' deep rotary drilled (air) class 3B well.
10" borehole down to 60'. 6" rest of the way down.
Hit Bedrock at 15'.
6 1/4" PVC Casing down to 60'.
2+ gpm Yield/Recovery
I checked static water level and measured 167'

Total Pump Head: Adding to the elevation head I am adding 160' more of head (friction and psi). So for initial pump turn on at the 167' of static, TPH= 327'.

From what I learned on this forum, and searching the web, and even talking to such folks as Chris Worst (great guy!), here is what I think would be a solid long lasting conventional system:

10GPM 2HP AY McDonald 23000 series (Domestic Stainless Steel) 3 wire.

1 1/4" Schedule 120 drop pipe with tapered threads and stainless elongated couplings.

Flat jacketed electrical wire.

No torque arrestor and no wire standoffs.

No additional check valves beside the internal one in the pump.

No safety wire or rope attached to the pump.
----------------------

81 gal pressure tank such as the Amtrol Well-x-Trol WX-255.

Stainless Steel pressure tank Tee Assembly.
---------------------

Pump depth set, based upon pump curve and shut off head. I would set it at 590' down the well, which is the shutoff head for this pump (590+160).
That would give us about 380 gallons in the bore that could be pumped in the efficient zone alone, from 167' down to 390', from 14gpm down to 7gpm.
If we needed the water from 390' down to 480' we could still use it an only be operating +/- 10% out of BEP (7 to 5 gpm). I would want some kind of shutoff protection at 480', reserving the right to tap into the remaining 480' to 590' in emergencies.

Thanks! Sounds like a well thought out and good plan. If this is for house use only and there are no long term water uses like when running sprinklers, it won't cycle on/off that much. Deep set pumps with a high static level make it a challenge to be able to use a Cycle Stop Valve, but the CSV would be good if you have any long term water uses. With a pump that can build 260 PSI form a 160' static level you would need two of the CSV1A valves. The first would drop the 260 PSI form the pump down to 150 PSI. the second CSV would see 150 PSI coming in, and hold the pressure at a constant 50 PSI while water is being used. Just have to make sure all the pipe and fittings before the CSV are rated for the 260 PSI the pump can build. The 80 gallon tank would still work with the CSV, but you could use as small as a 20 gallon size tank if you wanted.

But if there are no long term uses you can get by without a CSV by using the 80 gallon tank. Even if not using a Cycle Stop Valve, I would still install a Cycle Sensor to protect the pump from running dry. The Cycle Sensor protects the pump by sensing amps and knowing when the well is dry. There is nothing to set at a certain depth to shut off the pump when needed.
 

LLigetfa

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10GPM 2HP AY McDonald 23000 series (Domestic Stainless Steel) 3 wire.
It would be interesting to know the amperage curve of that pump. In some cases, motor amps drawn is relative to GPM of water moved but that depends on the pump design so does not apply to all pumps. That is how deadhead or run-dry condition is detected. Getting it to shut off at 480 feet however might not work.
 

ElkRock

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Thanks! Sounds like a well thought out and good plan. If this is for house use only and there are no long term water uses like when running sprinklers, it won't cycle on/off that much. Deep set pumps with a high static level make it a challenge to be able to use a Cycle Stop Valve, but the CSV would be good if you have any long term water uses. With a pump that can build 260 PSI form a 160' static level you would need two of the CSV1A valves. The first would drop the 260 PSI form the pump down to 150 PSI. the second CSV would see 150 PSI coming in, and hold the pressure at a constant 50 PSI while water is being used. Just have to make sure all the pipe and fittings before the CSV are rated for the 260 PSI the pump can build. The 80 gallon tank would still work with the CSV, but you could use as small as a 20 gallon size tank if you wanted.

But if there are no long term uses you can get by without a CSV by using the 80 gallon tank. Even if not using a Cycle Stop Valve, I would still install a Cycle Sensor to protect the pump from running dry. The Cycle Sensor protects the pump by sensing amps and knowing when the well is dry. There is nothing to set at a certain depth to shut off the pump when needed.
I was leaning away from CSV because of the challenge you mention and because there really are no long term water draws. Yes we will have a garden, but it will be manually watered with hose and spot watering. We just dont get into setting a sprinkler and letting it run for an hour or more if you forget. So no to CSV but maybe yes to sensor. I would like to set it so that if I do pump down to pump depth at 490', even though there's another 100 feet of water beyond that point, I want to stop pumping to not stray past the pump curve by more than 10%. Can that sensor be set up to shut off pump at what ever amp draw happens at 490?
 

ElkRock

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It would be interesting to know the amperage curve of that pump. In some cases, motor amps drawn is relative to GPM of water moved but that depends on the pump design so does not apply to all pumps. That is how deadhead or run-dry condition is detected. Getting it to shut off at 480 feet however might not work.
The motor is a 10.6amp with a service factor of 1.25. So my guess is that when pumping from 490' the motor is probably going to draw slightly more since it is now running 10% past the curves BEP. Maybe 11 amps? But certainly not more than the 13 amps at SF current.
 

Valveman

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I would like to set it so that if I do pump down to pump depth at 490', even though there's another 100 feet of water beyond that point, I want to stop pumping to not stray past the pump curve by more than 10%. Can that sensor be set up to shut off pump at what ever amp draw happens at 490?
Yes it can. Some pumps have enough of a drop in amperage as the head increases to be able to do that, some don't. I don't know how well the amps drop on a 10 GPM McDonald? Most pump will drop to about 50% amperage when the pump is running dry. If that pump has a fairly good drop in amperage from more head or restricting the flow, the amps indicate the water level in the well. However, some pump only drop about 10% amps even with max head, so there is little difference as the water level drops. You will just need to read the amps as the water level is drawn down and see if there is a point at which you can shut the pump off before the amps drop 50% and the well is dry.

I agree this is one system that might be fine without a CSV. The only advantage I see with the CSV is the soft stop at 1 GPM, which would save your check valve and eliminate any water hammer on pump stop. Also sometimes the CSV can be helpful on pumps like this when the water level is high, as the extra back pressure of the CSV keeps the pump out of upthrust. The strong constant pressure of the CSV also won't be noticed as much with the large tank and intermittent uses. But I have used two CSV1A valves on many systems like this with great success when a smaller tank was the only option or more long term uses of water where needed.
 
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