Decreased Pressure - Ruling out Check Valve

[TrevorLS]

Hello,

Problem: Decreased pressure from well. Only pushing 35 psi. Usually pushing 55 psi.
Proposed Cause: Leak in the line between the Pump and the pressure gauge.
Environment: Well depth = 190 ft, no pit-less adapter (comes straight out the top of the well cap)

Attached is a picture of my setup. I have take some steps to trouble shoot this and would like to get others thoughts if you agree before committing to pull the well.

Recently pump motor will only push 35 PSI and will not shut off, even if I lower the set point on the constant pressure motor controller. If I turn off the pump motor, the pressure decreases to 0 in about 30 seconds. If I close the shutoff valve which isolates the lines from the well house to the house, and I turn the pump motor off, the pressure decreases to 0 in about 3 seconds. This tells me it is not a leak between the well and the house, and has to be somewhere in the well.

Below is a list of potential causes and my conclusion.

Cause 1 - Leak between the well and the house.
Answer - No. Pressure still decreases to 0 when I isolate that section at the shutoff valve.

Cause 2 - Bad pressure switch making it so the motor does not turn off.
Answer - No. If it was a bad pressure switch and motor kept on pumping as normal, the pressure would be able to reach 50 or more.

Cause 3 - Bad check/bypass valves in the line between motor and well head.
Answer - No. This would explain why pressure decreases to 0 when the motor is turned off, but does not explain why pressure will not build up higher than 35 psi.

Cause 4 - Leaking pump seals so pressure will not build
Answer - No. This would explain why the pressure will not build above 35 psi, but does not explain why pressure falls to 0 almost instantly once it is turned off. The check valves would keep the pressure built up.

Cause 5 - Hole/leak in the line between pump and pressure gauge switch.
Answer - Yes. This would explain why the pressure will not build up beyond 35 psi, and why the pressure decreases to swiftly when motor is not on. This also explains why the motor is constantly running. for example, if the motor controller set point is reduced to 20 psi, the pump reaches 20, but as soon as it starts to back off, the pressure drops with it so it just keeps running to keep the pressure at the set point.

What do you all think? Am I missing anything?

Question 2 - Since I do not have a pit-less adapter, and my water lines comes out the top of the well cap, how can I remove the well cap to see what type of water line is connecting the well cap and the pump? I just want to be sure that the water line doesn't drop into the well if I unbolt the cap. I want to look inside and confirm it is flexible piping and not rigid metal piping. Once I confirm this, it will help in my decision as to weather or not I hire to have the well pulled, or have myself and two helpers do this repair.

Thanks for the tips!

 

[Valveman]

If you shut off the valve to the house then shut off the pump, the pressure should stay where it is. If the pressure decreases like you say, you must have a hole in the pipe down the well. Otherwise I would just assume the variable speed controller just crapped out like they usually do.

The well seal you are looking at is what holds the pump. DO NOT remove the bolts all the way. They only need to be loosened slightly to be able to pull up the pipe and seal at the same time. But it will be heavy and the seal is probably stuck. So it will take a good winch to lift it. Whatever kind of pipe is coming out the top of the well seal is probably the same as the pipe in the well. But sometimes there will be a metal coupling sitting on the well seal that is attached to PVC pipe underneath.

My guess is there is a hole in the pipe or a fitting just above the pump. If there is a galv nipple screwed into the pump it needed to be taped over to prevent electrolysis from eating a hole in the galv nipple. This kind of electrolysis is even more of a problem with the strange power to the pump generated by the VFD controller.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

What do you all think? Am I missing anything?

I don't thinks so.

Question 2 - Since I do not have a pit-less adapter, and my water lines comes out the top of the well cap, how can I remove the well cap to see what type of water line is connecting the well cap and the pump? I just want to be sure that the water line doesn't drop into the well if I unbolt the cap. I want to look inside and confirm it is flexible piping and not rigid metal piping.

The fitting above the well seal holds up the pipe string. Do not pull any screws out of the well seal. They only get loosened. Read up on well seals.

Flex poly is possible. More likely is threaded steel or PVC. Did you say whether your casing is PVC or steel? I initially missed that your well head is in a heated well house.



I am not a pro.

 

[TrevorLS]

Thanks for the replies!

The casing itself is steel with a steel cap/seal. My picture doesn't show it but the well housing is dug about 4 ft in the ground and the casing is extended above the ground into the well housing which is kept warm by the pressure controller and other electronics. I will consider your advise since there is a risk if there was an extended power outage that it could freeze.

Regarding the removal of the cap. There are roughly 6 bolts on the top of the cap with the water line in the center coming out of the cap. So is it some type of expansion cap that when I loosen those 6 bolts it will allow it to be lifted up? Does this also mean that when I lift up the cap, I will be lifting the entire well line including the pump/motor? This would be great if that is the case, since it will give me a sense for how heavy this will be.

Thanks again.

 

[Reach4]

Since they cared enough to use brass or bronze fittings above the well seal, it seems less likely to me that the pipe below the well seal is galvanized. That still leaves PVC or poly, with PVC seeming more likely to me.

I had my well pit demolished, steel casing extended with welding, and a pitless adapter installed. The motivation is flooding into the pit went through the well seal into the well. Well seals don't live up to their name many times. Mine sure did not.

My alert was that a few weeks after scrubbing out the floor of my pit with an excess of laundry detergent, I got suds in my water from the tap. I looked into the pit, and saw the water level right at the well seal. The leaking well seal limited the rise of the water. I put a utility pump and low-level float switch into my pit for a while before I got the work done.

If you can put some paper or aspirin tablets on the floor of your pit, and they don't show signs of being flooded, good. Otherwise, watch for signs of contamination.