Deciding between Toto Drake II, Toto Eco Drake, Toto Ultramax or Kohler Cimarron

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Union City, New Jersey
I have been to both showrooms, talked to many people and still can't decide which toilet to get! Why is this such a hard decision!?

I am a new homeowner and need to replace all 4 toilets in my home.
My main necessities are:
-powerful flush (I have low water pressure- I'm on a hill- and I have two toddlers so random small things might make there way into the toilet unnoticed!)
-easy to clean
-universal height
-elongated bowl
-water sense
-soft close lid to protect little fingers

I know all of my choices: Toto Eco Drake, Toto Drake II, Toto Ultramax and Kohler Cimarron hit all of the above. But I can't decide which is best for me or really the difference between them all besides the obvious, and I'm wondering if my decision is just going to come down to aesthetic and price since they are all great options.

A few questions:
1. The Toto Drake gets such amazing reviews. Is the Eco Drake just as good?
2. Is the only difference between the Drake II and the Drake the new universal height and the tornado flush?
3. Is there a difference between the Ultramax and the Ultramax II? I love that it is one piece.
4. I will have to purchase Toto toilets online instead of from a showroom in order to save money. Is that a reliable way to purchase them? Are there online retailers I should avoid, look into?
5. The Kohler Cimarron is supposed to be great, but I dislike how the seat attaches to the bowl as I find it flimsy.
6. I have a bathroom in our basement with an above ground pump. Will any of the above toilets be ok with that or should I avoid one with too powerful a flush?

We have Kohler's now and I can't stand them- mainly because they are all falling apart, but they haven't been replaced in 15 years so I can't really use that as a judgement call against the brand. I am looking to spend no more than approximately $400/toilet.

Thank you for your help! I just want to make sure if I'm spending more for the Toto brand that they are worth it and will last, despite some mixed reviews. I know Kohler is less expensive to purchase and fix, and gets nothing but great reviews.

Thank you again!
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New Member
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Atlanta, Georgia
What did you end up deciding on? I'm also looking at the Eco Drake and Drake II (and maybe the Drake)? I think I'm leaning toward the Drake II. Have you found any head-to-head comparisons online between the Eco Drake and the Drake II?


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Terry warns that shipping has a high damage rate so recommends buying locally. That being said I've ordered a couple of Toto's online from They've packed them well and I've had no issues.


The Plumbing Wizard
Staff member
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Bothell, Washington
The TOTO II series is comfort height with the good bowl finish and Tornado flush.
Drake II
Vespin II
Ultramax II
Carlyle II
I have sold thousands and many of those have been repeat sales. Like every time they move the call me back.
Kohler has also upped the quality the last few years. I sell fewer, but do install quite a few.
Either will work fine on your system with the pump, and use gravity for the flush. Water pressure is not an issue.

I installed an Ultramax II that had been shipped the other day. It took ten minutes to pry the toilet from the packing, and then I had all this foam that was going to land fill. What a waste of resources. I need to remember to charge more labor for both dump fees and time to unpack. Normally I have the homeowner pull the toilet from the packing beforehand to inspect for damage. It's a waste of time for a plumber to drive over and find a broken mess after ten minutes of struggle with the packing.
The stuff I get locally, because it's shipped differently and handled right, not dropped off the end of a delivery van, is perfect everytime.
I would say that 20% of the shipped stuff comes broken. When you get a shipment that isn't, then you're in the 80% margin. You got kind of lucky.
Most people can't pick up the packages. Too large and too heavy. We're talking 100 pounds easy.

A couples video of Africa by Toto
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