Dahl supply line ball valves....anything else better?

Which shutoff valves are the most reliable for you?

  • BrassCraft

    Votes: 3 42.9%
  • Nibco

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Watts

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Dahl

    Votes: 4 57.1%
  • old style right angle 1/2 FIP to 1/2 FIP with 3/8 OD adapter

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    7

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SWong

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Posting this question to Terry's Forum..... currently finished installing a trial set of Dahl ball valves after being disappointed with all the junk sold locally. This includes BrassCraft,Nibco and Watts which eventually will not shut off water or eventually drip when I must perform maintenance or faucet replacements. The worse ones are the plastic stem with rubber washers which all drip when I attempt to turn off water to replace a failed supply side ceramic cartridge. It's gotten so bad I avoid these types completely however even the BrassCraft, Nibco, and Watts quarter turn ball valves also leak or drip. I've now started using Dahl quarter turn ball valves but thought I would post a question to the forum asking if there were "quality" quarter turn ball valves (preferably forged versus junk cast yellow brass) undersink shutoffs sold. I read it now normal and customary to replace both the shutoff valve whenever you also replace a kitchen or bathroom faucet. My concern is the main house gate valve shutoff is old and one day I may not be able to turn water back on after performing repairs or maintenance. Your thoughts?
 

James Henry

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If your main shut off is faulty you better make sure you can shut the water off at the meter in case of an emergency. replace the valve as soon as possible.
 

Terry

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I've used Dahl and the better of the two Brasscraf shutoffs.

brasscraft-shutoff.jpg


The better one. They also make one that seems cheaper to me.

dahl-611-53-31.jpg
 
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Dj2

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To replace the main shut off, you need to stop the water at the meter. If you can't, call your water company and they'll do it for free. The'll even come back and turn it back on when your're ready.
For ball shut offs, I use Bugatti, sold at contractoraccess.com. Other shutoffs rust.
As far as angle stops, most are made in China. The better ones are made in USA. If you use the cheap valves, you will need to replace them frequently and hope for the best. If you use USA made valves, you may not need to change them frequently, but you will have to hope for the best as well - if your wish is no leak.
 

SWong

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Thanks for all the responses. I had no idea BrassCraft were American made hence my current choice for a Canadian made Dahl quarter turn shutoff. Time will tell if I have to go thru further kitchen supply shutoff replacements down the road. In the interim, I'll take Terry's sage advice and stock a few of the BrassCrafts along with a pair of Dahl's. The worse part of changing any of these shutoffs was the fact the stubout coming off the wall only had around 1/2-3/4 inch of threaded pipe showing making a already difficult replacement even worse as there was limited space to use 2 pipe wrenches. My fear was possibly loosening the pipe inside the all however plenty of kroil and squeezing both pipe wrenches to break them free allowed me to complete both valve replacements. If I was ever repiping during the renovation, I'd have a minimum 4 inches of stubout coming out the wall...not a nice looking however much easier to work when maintenance is ever required. Thanks again everyone and especially Mr Love!
 

Reach4

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My fear was possibly loosening the pipe inside
In changing out a stop valve for a toilet, the galvanized nipple unscrewed from the wall as I turned the NPT valve ccw. I got an appropriately sized brass nipple, got tape and dope, and screwed that nipple back in with the new valve.
 

Terry

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In changing out a stop valve for a toilet, the galvanized nipple unscrewed from the wall as I turned the NPT valve ccw. I got an appropriately sized brass nipple, got tape and dope, and screwed that nipple back in with the new valve.

Removing galvanized nipples from the wall, if there isn't much there, I use an easyout pushed into the nipple to prevent it from collapsing when turning with the pipe wrench. Often where the steel meets the brass, I will see partial threads which precipitates the replacement of the pipe nipple.
 

SWong

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I tried chasing down a few of the recommended (by Terry) Brasscraft shutoffs however everything stock by my local Lowes and Home Depot are junk. Usual plastic stems and/or knob which doesn't instill confidence. The Dahls also appear to have gone up in pricing...originally paid $11/unit and now they cost $15/unit which is high. Yes, quality items cost more hence I'll lurk around eBay and scarf up a few when offerings arise. Unless its an emergency situation I avoid the plumbing supply houses simply because they all charge retail for walk-in customers....ugh!

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Gsmith22

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www.supplyhouse.com is your friend. same day pickup (if near their warehouse), next day shipping (for free if over certain amount), easier to deal with then your typical plumbing supply house, i will literally never go to a plumbing supply house ever again. I don't even know why they exist with outfits such as this
 

Terry

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i will literally never go to a plumbing supply house ever again. I don't even know why they exist with outfits such as this

I have several local suppliers. I prefer my china in one piece, not dropped onto the curb by the gal that drives the Fedex truck.
I love that I can ask questions while I'm on the phone or at the counter with them. And yes, Dahl is a good shutoff.
 

Mliu

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I had no idea BrassCraft were American made.
All of BrassCraft's supply stop valves are made in USA. However, Brasscraft have three classes of valves:

1. Their old-style "Multi-Turn Stops." (I don't like multi-turn stops and never install them.)

2. Their less-expensive "1/4 Turn Stops." These are the 1/4 turn BrassCraft stops you typically find at big box stores. They have solid brass bodies, but the stem is plastic and the operating part of the valve itself is simply a plastic (propylene?) cylinder with a hole in the side of it. The valve handle looks like a rounded triangle. The part numbers for these valves start with "G2". Note that, while these valves are rated up to 160°F, they are NOT intended for constant exposure to temperatures greater than 115°F, no doubt due to their internal plastic parts. This means these valves are not suitable for hot water recirculation systems. For that, you need the next valve...

3. Their high-quality "1/4 Turn Ball Stops." These you will typically have to order from a plumbing supply company (local or online). They have solid brass bodies, a plated brass stems with two sealing 0-rings, and a chrome-plated solid brass ball with PTFE seals for the operating part of the valve. You can see the distinctive handle in the image below. The part numbers for these valves start with "KT". These are the "better BrassCraft" valves that Terry was referring to above. Check out the video below to learn more about these valves.

chrome-plated-brass-brasscraft-shut-off-valves-ktcr39x-cm-64_400.jpg


 

SWong

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Thanks for the info on the Brasscraft valves Mliu. I wish could could say my local HD store stocks the better of these Brasscraft branded shutoffs but alas it is not. Best I could find had the "G2" labeling hence I've not started paying the extra money and ordering them online. As alluded to earlier, I've finally installed my first pair of these Dahl quarter turn ball valves and from initial indications these are currently the best I can find. I suspect these Dahl shutoffs are not only all metal but the bodies appear to be forged versus cast chrome plated brass which is good. Weight alone on these Dahl are almost twice the weight of the brasscrafts which instills confidence this Canadian manufacturer knows what they are doing. If in a year or so this initial Dahl shutoff performs as expected I'll then order a bunch of them and install on my clothes washing machine shutoffs, boiler drain shutoffs, outside garden hose shutoff and anywhere that requires water shutoffs. Pic's attached where I am currently trialing this initial set of Dahls. Same pictures also show I've also replaced the kitchen sink drain this time with quality 1-1/2-inch chrome plated brass slip joint nuts. Waste lines are only 17 gauge brass which means I'll have to replace them again in 5-7 years when they eventually rot out. If anyone know where I can source thicker brass waste lines (both in 1-1/5-inch and 1-1/2 inch brass please reply back). Kind of sucks knowing 17 gauge is the thickest I can find! In the last 10 years I must have changed over a dozen of these inferior shutoffs all purchased from HD. If everyone is tired of having to to continually replacing failed shutoffs seriously consider Dahl .... you will be amazed at the quality of these valves....twice the price however they have a lifetime warranty from Dahl!
 

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Mliu

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BrassCraft supply stop valve bodies are machined brass, presumably from brass bar stock, then chrome-plated. None of BrassCraft's valves I mentioned above are cast.

Looking at the Dahl valves, they also appear to be machined brass (not forged). From Dahl's TDS for their supply stop valves, they appear to have almost identical construction and materials to BrassCraft's KT series stops, although the BrassCraft KT appears to have a larger brass ball. Also, the handle on the BrassCraft is larger which makes it easier to operate (especially after the valve has not been opened/closed in a long time). The BrassCraft stops all have the ability to remove the handle. This is useful during rough-in construction to avoid the valves being inadvertently opened. But this isn't too important for end-users.

Price-wise, the Dahl 1/2" Nom x 3/8" Comp stops are ~$9.50 from an online supplier. The BrassCraft KT 1/2" Nom x 3/8" Comp stops are ~$7.50.
 

William S.

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Very informative thread here about the stop valves. I've been doing light home plumbing for many years, but always shied away from dealing with valves. I live in an apartment -- 2 full baths, dishwasher, lots of potential plumbing issuees. It's a co-op and I'm responsible for most plumbing work. A few years ago a plumber replaced a gate-style hot water shutoff under my kitchen sink with a quarter-turn ball valve, and I will be looking to have these things installed in the bathrooms.

. . . plenty of kroil and squeezing both pipe wrenches to break them free allowed me to complete both valve replacements . . .

I have a toilet that I want to put a new fill valve in, but have not yet because the 25 year-old stop valve is not stopping the waterflow. The stubout is a shiny metal pipe. Concern about possibly spinning that pipe while unscrewing the valve has had me on "pause" for awhile, while I read/watch guides online. The better guides are clear to specify that you have to secure that pipe with a second wrench, while at the same time protecting the pipe's surface. Sounds tricky to me, having never done it. I'm glad you persisted and got through it, and thanks for sharing the pics.
 
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Jadnashua

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Depending on how much torque you need, sometimes a strap wrench will have enough grip to let you unscrew something from a chromed pipe without scaring it all up.
 

Jeff H Young

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www.supplyhouse.com is your friend. same day pickup (if near their warehouse), next day shipping (for free if over certain amount), easier to deal with then your typical plumbing supply house, i will literally never go to a plumbing supply house ever again. I don't even know why they exist with outfits such as this
Thanks for your opinion on supply house .com And Thank you too Terry for your opinion on a real supply house. I like the real supply houses too. but since I'm so small and mainly work new construction for other contractors. I'm so burned out driving 20 minutes to supply house and make a small purchase on a little rinky dink job Go to pay and they tell you the total and as I'm walking out I see that half the crap I can get for half the price at Lowes Home Depot or hardware. Of course When I go to Home depot they don't have what I need its gotta be cobbled together with bushings adapters you name it .
Best anglestops I used I think were Chicago brand that was a chunk of brass. Hospital Job or school
 

Arnav

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Great thread. I ordered some Dahls valves after reading this.

In case it helps anyone that was confused by it like me, SupplyHouse doesn't carry a 1/2" OD Comp x 3/8" OD Comp labeled valve such as this Dahl one:
https://www.dahlvalve.com/products/mini-ball-valves/supply-stops/copper/supply-stops-611-32-31.php

Instead, this is the one to use for a 1/2" copper pipe (labeled 5/8 OD Comp (1/2 Nom. Pipe) X 3/8 OD Comp) part number 611-33-31:
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Bluefin...mp-1-4-Turn-Angle-Stop-Valve-Lead-Free-Chrome

Dahl and SupplyHouse confirmed this is the right valve for 1/2" copper. I was confused by the 5/8"...

BTW, HD Pro Trades (AKA Barnett) carries Dahl valves as well: https://www.ebarnett.com/Search?key...ProductOffering=False&previouslyOrdered=False
 
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Jeff H Young

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Great thread. I ordered some Dahls valves after reading this.

In case it helps anyone that was confused by it like me, SupplyHouse doesn't carry a 1/2" OD Comp x 3/8" OD Comp labeled valve such as this Dahl one:
https://www.dahlvalve.com/products/mini-ball-valves/supply-stops/copper/supply-stops-611-32-31.php

Instead, this is the one to use for a 1/2" copper pipe (labeled 5/8 OD Comp (1/2 Nom. Pipe) X 3/8 OD Comp) part number 611-33-31:
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Bluefin...mp-1-4-Turn-Angle-Stop-Valve-Lead-Free-Chrome

Dahl and SupplyHouse confirmed this is the right valve for 1/2" copper. I was confused by the 5/8"...

BTW, HD Pro Trades (AKA Barnett) carries Dahl valves as well: https://www.ebarnett.com/Search?key...ProductOffering=False&previouslyOrdered=False


It happens confusion True 1/2 inch compression isn't used that much . I even say 1/2 inch compression when I mean 5/8 OD Sometimes old supply lines to dishwasher are 1/2 " OD but not often and most of those old ones are out of service
 
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