White Shadow
New Member
Okay, thanks. Do my steps listed above look correct? Am I missing anything? Keep in mind that I've never messed around with this stuff before, but I think I'm okay as long as I don't do anything stupid.
Cycle Stop Valve voided my well pump warranty???
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All good except for #6 which I explained.
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White Shadow
New Member
So 5 psi under cutoff, got it. But how do I ensure that I'm running 3 gallons of water per minute? What should I turn on? My irrigation system might be higher than that.
White Shadow
New Member
Yes, that makes sense. I should've thought of that.
I trust Cary's advice 100%, but I still wonder why the pump man who originally installed my CSV insisted on running the highest volume zone in my irrigation system when he adjusted the CSV. I was under the impression that it should be adjusted only when the system is using heavy amounts of water.
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With the CSV1A you will have 10 PSI less running a large sprinkler zone than when running 3 GPM. So if you want 50 PSI on the sprinklers, set the CSV1A to 60 while running 3 GPM.
White Shadow
New Member
Hold on...now I'm confused. If I set my pressure switch back to 40/60, shouldn't I set the CSV to 55 psi (you mentioned 5 psi less than cutoff) while running 3 GPM?
Yes and then you will have 45 PSI on the large sprinkler zones. If you want more, set it higher.
White Shadow
New Member
Is there any specific recommended pressure for running the sprinkler zones? I mean, before I got the CSV, the pressure was fluctuating every minute or so as the pump cycled on and off. So it was constantly changing pressure. So would a constant 45 psi be good?
Will be much better than before the CSV when the pressure kept going up and down with each cycle. With constant pressure from a CSV the sprinklers will hit the same spot every time around. If they are not shooting far enough you can increase the pressure of the CSV.
White Shadow
New Member
Great, thanks again for all the help. I was thinking about this and have a question--- if a small tank is preferable when running a CSV, then why wouldn't people with bigger tanks just adjust their pressure switches to have a more narrow range? For example, why not set the cut-on point at 50 psi, the cut-off point at 60 psi, and then set the CSV for 55 psi? Wouldn't that make a large tank behave more like a smaller tank?
Yeah. So you would be paying twice as much to do the same thing? Plus most pressure switches won't do less than 20 PSI between on and off.
White Shadow
New Member
Well, I was talking about someone like me who already has a large pressure tank installed. But if the pressure switch isn't designed to do less than 20 psi on & off, then I guess that's not going to work.
The only pressure switches I know that will do 10 PSI between on and off are like these. But yes that will work.
https://cyclestopvalves.com/products/electronic-pressure-switch-1
https://cyclestopvalves.com/products/electronic-pressure-switch-1
White Shadow
New Member
Okay, I adjusted my pressure switch back to 40/60 and set the tank air bladder pressure to 38 psi. Then I installed my CSV and adjusted it to 57 psi running 3 GPM through a garden hose. When I ran the irrigation, I had about 45 to 47 psi, depending on the zone running. My irrigation zones have different amounts of sprinkler heads, anywhere from 6 heads to 8 heads. Since the pressure seemed a little on the weak side, I went back to the pressure switch and changed it to 50/70 and set the air bladder to 48 psi. Then I set my CSV to 67 psi with 3 GPM running through my garden hose again. That gave me about 55 to 57 psi with the irrigation running.
Any issues with what I did or is everything okay that way? I did notice that the pressure switch spring doesn't have much more room before it is fully compressed at 50/70, so I hope that's not going to cause any issues.
I ran irrigation a few times over the holiday weekend and the water pressure seems great even when taking a shower and running irrigation at the same time. I think I lose maybe 2 psi of pressure when running additional water loads when the irrigation is also running.
Any issues with what I did or is everything okay that way? I did notice that the pressure switch spring doesn't have much more room before it is fully compressed at 50/70, so I hope that's not going to cause any issues.
I ran irrigation a few times over the holiday weekend and the water pressure seems great even when taking a shower and running irrigation at the same time. I think I lose maybe 2 psi of pressure when running additional water loads when the irrigation is also running.
Those Square D switches are good to about 55/75. Any higher and the spring is collapsed. Sounds like you did a great job!
White Shadow
New Member
One thing I forgot to ask--- Before reinstalling my CSV, I decided to check the amp draw on the well pump with my irrigation running. Using the L1 wire on the pressure switch, the pump was pulling 8.4A. After the CSV was installed, the pump was pulling 7.4A with the irrigation running. Is this typical? My well pump is a 1hp Goulds and it was installed about five months ago.
Yes very typical. It will probably drop to 6 amps when using less water or filling the pressure tank. Some pump brands will drop even more than that. By making a 9 amp motor run at 7.4 or less the CSV is making the motor run cooler and last longer.
Elton Noway
Member
Hi Valveman... My apologies for piggybacking off another post but wanted to let the OP and others know they are not alone in this situation as I just had a "similar" experience.
My well pump died day before yesterday. I was in the process of getting quotes to replace it. The first two companies to come out both took issue with my setup when they saw the CSV valve. One company suggested I would need to remove it remove it!
(As you may recall you helped me 8 years ago designing the rebuild of the system under my house using a pside-kick with PK1W. In so many words they insinuated the "premature" pump failure was probably due to the back pressure created by the CSV. I told him I didn't consider the failure premature, considering my inexpensive Home Depot Flotec pump lasted just a few months short of 20 years and... the pump was already in service for 11 years before I installed pside-kick kit. I in fact attributed the exceptional and additional lifespan of the pump to the installation of the CSV.
Anyway... I had a third company come out today. Before they got into the details and benefits of their service, I interrupted him to mention I had a CSV in the system. He said "No problem... it's a great product, we install them all the time." I told him two other companies said it was a bad idea. He went on to explain some of the "smaller" or less experienced companies don't understand the science behind the CSV... or how the pumps will actually draws less amps, extends life etc.
Now if I could just get over the shock of a $1,700 estimate for just pulling and replacing the pump and that's providing all of the other components (pressure switch, wiring etc. are intact.) The good news he said my installation looked perfect and he wouldn't change a thing.
BTW: It appears the model PK1W is no longer offered. Since I;m getting a new pump installed would there be any benefit to replacing it with the newer design CSV1A?
I think you piggybacked on the right thread. My whole point was to show the crazy opposition people get from people who are suppose to be professionals, or at least know how pumps work. When you find one who really knows how the CSV works they are all for it. Thanks for chiming in.
The PK1W using the CSV1W valve was the first kit we put on the market. The first ones were very good, which was before our government started making us take all the lead out of brass. BTW unleaded brass is junk. You have to be careful what you use it for. After we took the lead out of the CSV1W, the metal flaked off little green copper chunks that would eventually cause the shaft to stick. We discontinued the CSV1W for that reason and switched to Stainless for the CSV1A. Stainless has its problems with threads leaking. But if you get the threads sealed nothing will flake off like unleaded brass.
But as long as the CSV1W isn't stuck it could last many more years. Kind of depends on the water quality. If it sticks just replace it with a CSV1A. We had more problems with those red tanks than anything. They are Amtrol brand, but we had lots of failures. You will know if the CSV1W sticks as you will not have enough water or the pump will start cycling on/off. But you might want to check the air pressure in that tank every once in a while. Some of those PK1W kits are over 11 years old and still working. There are many CSV1W valves still working for over 15 years now. The earliest CSV models are now over 26 years old and still working. That makes the first pumps on CSV's now over 26 years old. I wonder how long they have to last before some of those pump guys figure out the CSV actually makes pumps last longer? It only takes one or two saying stupid stuff like "back pressure is bad, and cycling doesn't hurt" to make the rest of us look bad. As you have found there are a few knowledgeable pump guys out there, and they are probably worth more than they are asking.
The PK1W using the CSV1W valve was the first kit we put on the market. The first ones were very good, which was before our government started making us take all the lead out of brass. BTW unleaded brass is junk. You have to be careful what you use it for. After we took the lead out of the CSV1W, the metal flaked off little green copper chunks that would eventually cause the shaft to stick. We discontinued the CSV1W for that reason and switched to Stainless for the CSV1A. Stainless has its problems with threads leaking. But if you get the threads sealed nothing will flake off like unleaded brass.
But as long as the CSV1W isn't stuck it could last many more years. Kind of depends on the water quality. If it sticks just replace it with a CSV1A. We had more problems with those red tanks than anything. They are Amtrol brand, but we had lots of failures. You will know if the CSV1W sticks as you will not have enough water or the pump will start cycling on/off. But you might want to check the air pressure in that tank every once in a while. Some of those PK1W kits are over 11 years old and still working. There are many CSV1W valves still working for over 15 years now. The earliest CSV models are now over 26 years old and still working. That makes the first pumps on CSV's now over 26 years old. I wonder how long they have to last before some of those pump guys figure out the CSV actually makes pumps last longer? It only takes one or two saying stupid stuff like "back pressure is bad, and cycling doesn't hurt" to make the rest of us look bad. As you have found there are a few knowledgeable pump guys out there, and they are probably worth more than they are asking.
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