Cycle stop Valve help

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LLigetfa

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I think I see where you are going with this. You think there is a topside checkvalve and that the line is draining back?
 

Maxbrandy

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Just tested again

pressure at 60, drained down switch closed at 40, amps went to 10.5, dropped down to 10 as pressure rose to 55 (csv set) amps held there. closed valve oressure rose and amps dropped to 9.8 , pressure hit 60 , switched opened

Open valve, drain down to 42 closed valve, less then a minute opened valve, pressure hit 40, switch closed , amps shot up to 40 stayed there for few seconds then zero amps. switch stayed closed pressured continued to drop (closed and opened valve a few times) then at switch cut off switch opened and pressured went to zero. Tried to reset wouldn't, waited maybe 20 seconds tried reset again amps went to 10.5, pressure shot to 30 and continued up to 60.

so I have recreated the scenario twice>>>>> whats next ????

Have to say I am learning a lot here :):)
 

Maxbrandy

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Reach4

I relpied to you post but must of done something wrong because I don;t see it.

There is a Tee so I would say maybe 10" or less from Tank to switch.

when the pump working there is like zero time between switch close and gauge going up.
Sometimes it will take 4 to 5 seconds
Then when it fails switch close and gauge never goes up


and to answer LL>>> there is a check valve between outside wall where pipe comes in and where CSV is
 

Maxbrandy

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OK, good sleuthing! The high current suggests locked rotor followed by thermal trip.

Hmmm, but what would be locking the rotor up tat much that 40 amps could break it free, but a few seconds later it works normal???

BRB... have to vacuum/ clean for company tonight, the wife is hard at work
 

DonL

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Hmmm, but what would be locking the rotor up tat much that 40 amps could break it free, but a few seconds later it works normal???

BRB... have to vacuum/ clean for company tonight, the wife is hard at work


The 40 amps will not break the motor free. Your breaker feeding your pump must be over sized or would need reset. What size is your breaker ?

If you are using a auto-range meter, check the scale that it is on, when you think that you are reading 40 amps.

A Cycle Stop Valve may have let your pump down, and maybe should not be used on that brand and model of pump, If it is truly smoked and drawing 40 amps at 230V.

A 40 Amp reading may be a short between the headset, or wiring.


Good luck.
 
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Maxbrandy

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The 40 amps will not break the motor free. Your breaker feeding your pump must be over sized or would need reset. What size is your breaker ?

If you are using a auto-range meter, check the scale that it is on, when you think that you are reading 40 amps.

A Cycle Stop Valve may have let your pump down, and maybe should not be used on that brand and model of pump, If it is truly smoked and drawing 40 amps at 230V.

A 40 Amp reading may be a short between the headset, or wiring.


Good luck.


The pump is on 2, 20 amp breakers.

The CSV was on before the pump was installed. Didn't realize that certain pumps should be used with them, will have to talk to them and see what they recommend, if thats the case it would be nice if they stated that on their website, wouldn't you think?

I am using a auto range meter, I think I tested it on both the 40 amp and the 400 amp range.

I am not sure why this only happens when there is low pressure , when the pressure is up it seems to work fine.

I am kind of shying away from the wiring, when I drop this new pump in the well , we made sure that the wire was secured well. probably over did it if anything.


Merry Christmas :)
 

DonL

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The pump is on 2, 20 amp breakers.

The CSV was on before the pump was installed. Didn't realize that certain pumps should be used with them, will have to talk to them and see what they recommend, if thats the case it would be nice if they stated that on their website, wouldn't you think?

I am using a auto range meter, I think I tested it on both the 40 amp and the 400 amp range.

I am not sure why this only happens when there is low pressure , when the pressure is up it seems to work fine.

I am kind of shying away from the wiring, when I drop this new pump in the well , we made sure that the wire was secured well. probably over did it if anything.


Merry Christmas :)


Your breaker should have tripped.

You should turn off auto-ranging and test again.

You may have been in the 4 amp range ?.


Good Luck
 

Maxbrandy

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Your breaker should have tripped.

You should turn off auto-ranging and test again.

You may have been in the 4 amp range ?.


Good Luck

Good morning
I will do that again
Discussing with a buddy and we wondering why breaker doesn't trip also
 

Valveman

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The Cycle Stop Valve is not the problem. You still haven't determined if the pump is running the second the pressure switch closes. Clip the amp meter around one of the hot wires. Watch as the pressure drops and the points in the pressure switch close or touch. If the amps dopn't immediatly come up to normal, the pump is not started.
 

LLigetfa

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You still haven't determined if the pump is running the second the pressure switch closes.
. . .
If the amps dopn't immediatly come up to normal, the pump is not started.

I believe it has been demonstrated that the amps go very high and don't come DOWN to normal, suggesting a locked rotor.

There is debate as to the validity of the measurements and why it does not trip the breaker. Breakers are not fast acting and can absorb high start current above their rating. I believe the thermal protection in the pump opens before the breaker has time to react.

DonL is off in left field to say that a pump has to be compatible with a CSV or to suggest a faulty CSV. Even if the CSV were to completely close, it would not prevent the pump from starting. Starting against a closed valve would lower the current draw, not increase it. The current draw is commensurate with GPM moved. A fully open CSV will cause the pump to draw more current but no more than if there was no CSV at all.
 

DonL

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I believe it has been demonstrated that the amps go very high and don't come DOWN to normal, suggesting a locked rotor.

There is debate as to the validity of the measurements and why it does not trip the breaker. Breakers are not fast acting and can absorb high start current above their rating. I believe the thermal protection in the pump opens before the breaker has time to react.

DonL is off in left field to say that a pump has to be compatible with a CSV or to suggest a faulty CSV. Even if the CSV were to completely close, it would not prevent the pump from starting. Starting against a closed valve would lower the current draw, not increase it. The current draw is commensurate with GPM moved. A fully open CSV will cause the pump to draw more current but no more than if there was no CSV at all.


I know the pump does not need to be compatible with a CSV.

I was just saying if the pump did not even last for a year, the CSV did not prolong the life of that model pump.


Have Fun.
 

Maxbrandy

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Hello Guys,

So I have done numerous test and the results are all the same.... except today even when the pressure was up around 55 when I open valve the pressure drops to 40 switch closes and I get the 40 amp surge for maybe 3 , 4 seconds and goes to zero. Before I could only get it to do this between 40 and 45 .

So with all this said and tested , I bought a new pump, tomorrow the weathers going to close to 40 and sunny and after that in the low teens for a while. I am not going to take the chance this pump just craps out on me, its been warning me for over a month that something isn't right. After replacing switch, checking pressure tank, I think we would all agree the pump is the issue, especially at 40 amps start up. I can't explain why the breaker isn't failing, but maybe as LL said the pump trips so fast the breaker can react, that sounds good to me. I just think the pump from lowes is a low quality pump and has issues, when 7 out of 9 reviews are 1 star something is up.

So the only 1 hp 10 gpm pump I could locate was from a plumbing supply house, They sold me a F&W 4F10S10 , they said they been selling them for 30 yrs, and have no issues with them. I feel ok with that, they sell to local plumbers and I am sure they don't want to have issues with them. Right?
Also searched this site and the web and couldnt find 1 bad thing said about them.

I do have 1 question, this has a valve built into the pump, so after reading here I am thinking that would be the only check valve I need ??? Seems to be a hot topic.
 

DonL

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I do have 1 question, this has a valve built into the pump, so after reading here I am thinking that would be the only check valve I need ??? Seems to be a hot topic.


That is the only valve that you need.

You should clean the wire connections good, before waterproofing them.


Good Luck.
 

Maxbrandy

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Hello ... The new pumps in
They recommended a check valve with in 25 ft of the pump if the pump was down a certain depth. They also recommended one on the horizontal pipe to the tank.

As farther the CSV .. I like it because of the constant pressure, but I am going to see what the manufacture has to say tomorrow. I will report back

Thanks or all the help guys..... I learned a lot :):)
 

DonL

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Not sure why you would need 3 check valves.

I guess they are the pros.


Good Luck.
 
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