Cracked outdoor hose-spigot pipe?

[Jeff Davis]

So I think that I may have a cracked spigot pipe that leaks within my foundation wall. I've suspected this since November, when I shut off my hose bibs, but I never got around to diving into the project this winter. I'm guessing that the majority of the leaking water flows out the spigot-pipe penetration on the exterior of the house (and under the fiber-cement siding). FYI, I have yet to turn on the hose bib this spring.

Attached are some pictures.

Symptoms:

1. The lawn and flower bed, located near the spigot, were wet all last year (lots of mushrooms and fungus were growing in that area as well), before I turned off the spigot for the winter

2. From visible water stains, it looks like some water was leaking through the spigot penetration onto the foundation wall insulation inside the house

Since it looks to me like the pipe is soldered instead of screwed in, how can I check to be sure it is actually cracked without cutting the pipe?

Thanks!
-Jeff

 

[Reach4]

Since it looks to me like the pipe is soldered instead of screwed in, how can I check to be sure it is actually cracked without cutting the pipe?

I't cracked. Don't bother checking first. I am not a pro.

Select your new unit, but make the new one a frost-free model. Get one that is longer.

The new unit could be compression, solder, or even SharkBite! https://www.sharkbite.com/products/frost-free-sillcock

Given that nice access situation you have, you have lots of choices.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jeff Davis]

So it seems that the spigot pipe is cracked. Thanks @Reach4 and @MASTERPLUMB777.

The spigot/faucet is or was frost proof, but I think that I know how the crack happened:

My father-in-law came visiting in his RV during a cold spell and he needed water connected to it. I set him up with heated hoses and wrapped heat tape around the spigot and then secured insulation on top, but I’m betting that it wasn’t enough to keep a water-filled spigot pipe from cracking within the cold foundation wall.​

Anyway, since the spigot is an expensive Woodford 25, I’d like to salvage it, replace its respective pipe, and reinstall, if I can.

Question: what is the best way to remove the spigot & spigot pipe assuming that saving the Woodford spigot and swapping out it’s pipe is a sane & wise decision? Perhaps heat the solder and pull it all out -or- simply cut the pipe? I read in a recent post by @Terry that I should be careful not to twist the pipe into a mess.

Any advice is appreciated!

-Jeff D

 

[PlumbNuts]

https://www.googleadservices.com/pa...ilharprMbvAhWYbs0KHWGACX8Q9aACegQIAhBF&adurl=

At $52, I would replace before I went through that aggravation.

Is the copper pipe section of the hose-bib true pipe size? From the pics it appears to be approximately 3/4" pipe but is it standard pipe size or is a specific size made by the manufacturer?

If you remove it have you considered just soldering the crack closed?

I have never tried to repair a cracked frost-proof hose-bib, I am just naming some of the things thaat I would be looking at.
I am interested in seeing the outcome, take plenty of pictures.

 

[Jeff Davis]

Thanks for the words of wisdom. Since I haven't done much work with copper pipes—other than changing out a compression ring on a water supply line for a toilet—or with hose bib repair, I'd be a foolish to start off with an aggravating project on my first go-round, but I'll be sure to take a bunch of pictures of the mess that I'll most certainly make.

According to my calipers, the outer diameter of the hose-bib/spigot pipe is .93 inches or ~15/16"; the smaller pipe OD is .63 inches or ~5/8". I'm thinking that I'll cut the little pipe, change out the spigot, and solder the big and little pipes together. Does that sound like a good plan? Of course there are other small details like taking measurements, buying some extra copper and solder, and figuring out how to secure and insulate the spigot on the outside of the foundation wall.

Thanks!

 

[PlumbNuts]

Thanks for the words of wisdom. Since I haven't done much work with copper pipes—other than changing out a compression ring on a water supply line for a toilet—or with hose bib repair, I'd be a foolish to start off with an aggravating project on my first go-round, but I'll be sure to take a bunch of pictures of the mess that I'll most certainly make.

According to my calipers, the outer diameter of the hose-bib/spigot pipe is .93 inches or ~15/16"; the smaller pipe OD is .63 inches or ~5/8". I'm thinking that I'll cut the little pipe, change out the spigot, and solder the big and little pipes together. Does that sound like a good plan? Of course there are other small details like taking measurements, buying some extra copper and solder, and figuring out how to secure and insulate the spigot on the outside of the foundation wall.

Thanks!

The smaller pipe you are referring is the standard 1/2" copper water supply; I am not concerned with that.
My uncertainty is with the OD of the copper tube that creates the hose-bib. Will a 3/4" copper coupling fit on that if it were cut?
Also if you do cut and repair the length must be exact otherwise your stem will not work.

This question is not to offend but rather to clarify: Do you know how the frost-proof hose-bib operates? The mechanics of how it is assembled?

 

[Sarg]

 

[PlumbNuts]

View attachment 72381

Thanks Sarg, I couldn't figure out how to post one like that.

 

[Jeff Davis]

@PlumbNuts, No, I did not know the inner workings of a frost-proof hose bib. I ignorantly assumed that it incorporated some kind of material science metallurgy that kept a pipe from freezing . However, you opened my eyes, and I now realize that the vital components of a frost-proof hose bib are at the back of the pipe which is located inside the building, after install, where it can't freeze. (I'm sure that I'll look back at this post months from now and cringe at my naivete).

Please take a look at the attached picture.

I assume from your initial questions and your respective follow up questions—"Is the copper pipe section of the hose-bib true pipe size? From the pics it appears to be approximately 3/4" pipe but is it standard pipe size or is a specific size made by the manufacturer?; "My uncertainty is with the OD of the copper tube that creates the hose-bib. Will a 3/4" copper coupling fit on that if it were cut?"—that you want to know if something like a 3/4" to 1/2" reducing coupler can be used to join Pipe A to Pipe B, where both pipes would fit inside the coupler, correct?

If so, then my answer is, probably not. After just looking at Woodford's description of their #25 model (picture attached), it seems like a water pipe fits inside Pipe A and they are soldered together (at "Opening X" in my annotated picture) -OR- Pipe A can be threaded together with a 1/2" FPT copper pipe.

So it seems to me that there are two options after cutting the water pipe and removing the busted hose bib:

1. stick the water line inside the new hose bib pipe and solder together, like it is currently.

2. join together the new hose bib pipe and water line with a 1/2" FPT copper pipe adapter, which will be soldered to the water line (this way the new hose bib can be screwed in for installation as well as removed more easily).​

I prefer option 2, if that is a viable option.

What do you think?

 

[Reach4]

So it seems to me that there are two options after cutting the water pipe and removing the busted hose bib:

So no compression or Sharkbite for you.

 

[PlumbNuts]

I was just trying to make sense of the the different pipe sizes that you were mentioning. Without knowing your familiarity with plumbing and pipe sizes I was trying to insure that we were discussing the same thing.
The 1/2" copper pipe is you supply to your frost-proof hose-bib, the frost-proof hose-bib has a chamber that is made of 3/4" tubing (not sure if it is standard 7/8" OD as in typical type L copper). The 1/2" is soldered into the hose-bib's adapter which according to your picture can accept either 1/2" soldered pipe or a 3/4" female adapter.

Based on this discussion I recommend you replace the hose-bib. If you go with the same type then just cut the 1/2" copper and sweat in a new piece and add coupling.

 

[PlumbNuts]

However, you opened my eyes, and I now realize that the vital components of a frost-proof hose bib are at the back of the pipe which is located inside the building, after install, where it can't freeze. (I'm sure that I'll look back at this post months from now and cringe at my naivete).

I know it is hard to believe but I did not know anything at all about frost-proof hose-bibs the first time I worked on one either; I actually had to ask someone for advice.....

 

[WorthFlorida]

The magic behind a frost proof spigot is that it must slope downward going out the wall so it drains dry.

 

[Jeff Davis]

I know it is hard to believe but I did not know anything at all about frost-proof hose-bibs the first time I worked on one either; I actually had to ask someone for advice.....

Thanks for the help @PlumbNuts. It looks like I may have to tackle this project in a week as I have some traveling to do.

When I do tackle the project, I’ll be sure to post pictures.

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

I too had no clue about FF Hose Bibbs at one point.. Until I tried to lengthen one and found a copper rod inside!!

Definately buy a longer one than what you have currently. That way its shut off is that much further inside the warm space of the house. And replace it with the same model type so that you don't have as much weird looking hole to repair on the concrete exterior.

Inner workings of a Woodford frostfree just cuz I have one laying around the office.

 

[PlumbNuts]

I too had no clue about FF Hose Bibbs at one point.. Until I tried to lengthen one and found a copper rod inside!!

Definately buy a longer one than what you have currently. That way its shut off is that much further inside the warm space of the house. And replace it with the same model type so that you don't have as much weird looking hole to repair on the concrete exterior.

Inner workings of a Woodford frostfree just cuz I have one laying around the office.

View attachment 72659

I like the cutouts; a picture is worth a thousand and one words...

 

[Jeff Davis]

Update: I cut the water line inside the house and pulled out the frost-proof-outdoor spigot. It appears that the spigot was not cracked in any way. I checked by opening the spigot, pouring water into the open end, covering the opening with my thumb, and shaking vigorously. Result: no leak. Please see the attached pictures. Is there anything that I'm missing regarding the hose bibb's condition?

I'm guessing that all the water saturation in that area must be coming from the pour junction on the nearby downspout or the underground-corrugated gutter extension has broken apart near ground level. I'll check out both possibilities.

 

[Jeff Davis]

So I messed up. I used a propane torch with the intention of separating the small piece of copper pipe (water line) that is soldered to the hose bibb by means of melting off the solder. That way I could join the spigot to the water line using a threaded coupler.

Well, it failed, and it is now a distinct possibility that I bent the type M

copper pipe piece when trying to remove it from the faucet.

Does anyone have any recommendations on how I might proceed?

thanks.

 

[Reach4]

Does anyone have any recommendations on how I might proceed?

Solder a coupling where you cut, and put the same one back?

Go sharkbite or compression for a new longer one?

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

1- make sure you didn't also unsolder the male adapter from the assembly in the process.

looks like you tried to twist the copper pipe out of the brass. You're better off tapping it out.

With a second set of hands. Get some heat absorbing putty to put on the 3/4 copper body / brass adapter so you don't unsolder that part. Gently clamp the assembly to a work bench that won't move or wiggle. Clamp a vicegrip pliers to the end of the copper pipe. Then with just enough heat that the solder melts.. tap the vice grip with a hammer away from the brass.

A propane torch flame is hottest at the tip of the bright blue flame.. Every distance further away from that point is less hot. Solder melts at a significantly less temperature than that hottest part of the flame.. you can maintain the 800° needed to keep solder molten an inch or 2 from the hottest bit of the flame.

You likely have 1 chance to get that pipe out. The method I described will ruin the roundness of the tip of that pipe, but I suspect that its already at that point.