Controlling water flow with a dole valve and noise

[RonL1]

I have an open loop geothermal heat pump that I'm having difficulty keeping the flow rate where I want it. Original setup used just a slow close variable flow valve. This works, but with the pressure change from my well , the flow would go up or down 2 gpm. (Trying to stay close to 4.5)
I added a prv and set it to 15 psi. The prv does pretty well, but still fluctuates a few psi, which makes the flow +- 1 gpm. I'm going to try adding a 5 gpm dole valve to the mix. But I've read there pretty noisy. Anyone have any experiance with these and controlling the noise ? I'm hoping that since my psi is around 15, and drops to open pipe afterwards, the noise will be minimal.

 

[Valveman]

May not get the flow you need at 15 PSI. A Cycle Stop Valve would keep the well pump from cycling itself to death and keep the pressure constant instead of fluctuating. I use electric sprinkler valves with a flow control knob like the Irritrol 205 I think it is. The flow control in these valves is globe style and very quiet when throttling.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[RonL1]

May not get the flow you need at 15 PSI. A Cycle Stop Valve would keep the well pump from cycling itself to death and keep the pressure constant instead of fluctuating. I use electric sprinkler valves with a flow control knob like the Irritrol 205 I think it is. The flow control in these valves is globe style and very quiet when throttling.

View attachment 104814

Hey valveman... we have chatted before about the cycle stop and my geo setup. I also use an irratrol valve like yours. But I remembered the first time I tried A dole valve at 60 psi, very noisy. However, I just threw my 5 gpm dole valve in, just to try it at a low psi. It Works great. I actually opened the flow valve up so that it just barley engages. Pretty much wide open. Opened the prv to 20 psi. Gave me a steady 4.7 gpm. Perfect. Started and stopped at 38 and 62, same flow, maybe .1 , .2 at most difference. Watched it go full cycle 38-62-38 . Just excellent ! And noise... I think it's more quiet than being throttled by the irratrol.
First time in 40 years I'm actually happy with the flow rate.
Geo is putting out 55 degree air on cool... 96 on heat. So happy as a clamp now.

Thanks for your help... maybe I'll need a cyclestop someday, but for now, I'm good. Just one well cycle each time the geo kicks on.

 

[Valveman]

If you can widen the bandwidth temperature for the heat pump another 1 degree or so, the heat pump would not cycle so much. Even with a Cycle Stop Valve, if the heat pump is cycling the well pump is also cycling.

 

[RonL1]

If you can widen the bandwidth temperature for the heat pump another 1 degree or so, the heat pump would not cycle so much. Even with a Cycle Stop Valve, if the heat pump is cycling the well pump is also cycling.

True : if I remember correctly, you also run a geo on an open loop.
I run single stage as I prefer my geo to run the shortest cycles it can. Just for water conservation (at least the best I can running from my well) a 2 stage may be less expensive to run but it run a lot longer cycles.. I've read some instances where they run for hours. I don't need my well running for hours... great for closed loop, but not open.
If I did increase my temp cycle gap, I would definatly use a cycle stop as my geo would run much longer to Raise or lower the temp by that extra degree.
Not sure where that break even would be. Or how much more water I would use. (Or less) One of those things that you would just have to test out.
But currently it costs me about 300 a year to run the geo and well. So I'm happy with that number.

 

[Valveman]

Have.you ever counted how many cycles per day on your heat pump and well pump?

 

[RonL1]

Have.you ever counted how many cycles per day on your heat pump and well pump?

Yes sir..
On an 85-88 degree day, 30x, 98 degree day, 50x. Today it's 78, 3x.
And matching on the well, maybe plus 5 on the 98 degree day.
Very rarely does the well have to double cycle.

 

[Valveman]

30-50 cycles per day is a lot, but survivable. It really adds up though. 50 times 365 is 18,250 cycles per year. Imagine if you started your car that many times. I have many people tell me it doesn't matter how much energy their heat pump is saving because they have to replace the well pump so often from all the cycling.

After 20 years my heat pump finally gave up the ghost. I replaced it with a standard HVAC unit because I didn't want my wife having to worry about flow rates and pump cycling if I am no longer hear to help her. Nobody in our area works on heat pumps and I wanted her to just be able to call any HVAC company. But I really miss my heat pump.

 

[RonL1]

30-50 cycles per day is a lot, but survivable. It really adds up though. 50 times 365 is 18,250 cycles per year. Imagine if you started your car that many times. I have many people tell me it doesn't matter how much energy their heat pump is saving because they have to replace the well pump so often from all the cycling.

After 20 years my heat pump finally gave up the ghost. I replaced it with a standard HVAC unit because I didn't want my wife having to worry about flow rates and pump cycling if I am no longer hear to help her. Nobody in our area works on heat pumps and I wanted her to just be able to call any HVAC company. But I really miss my heat pump.

So far, in 40 years, 2 pump changes. (One was because of a wire rub) and that pump did cycle a a lot as I only had a small tank. 86 gallon tank, fixed that trouble.
But I do worry about the same thing for my wife.
But that's what my son is for, he can help her out,
3 geos, 1st went because of a copper coil pin hole (15 years)
2nd I just replaced as it was forming mold from condensation and I just replaced instead of cleaning. Florida, then miami heat pumps.. last one was 3k. Pretty affordable, slide the old out, slide the new in. Attach plumbing and a few other wires . Easy peasy...

 

[Valveman]

If I could have found another simple 3T heat pump I would still have one. But the new ones have variable speed pumps, fans, and even variable control valves. I have also had many people tell me the new variable speed heat pumps save a lot of energy, because they are not working half the time. Lol! I know that to be a fact with other things like well pumps, so sure didn't want a variable speed heat pump. I think the new refrigerant they are pushing will shorten the life of compressors even more. Sad!

 

[letusmaster]

At 15 psi with an open pipe after, you’re probably right that the noise won’t be too bad, mine’s quieter when the downstream pressure is low. One trick I found is to wrap the valve in some foam insulation tape; it dampens the vibration a bit.

 

[RonL1]

If I could have found another simple 3T heat pump I would still have one. But the new ones have variable speed pumps, fans, and even variable control valves. I have also had many people tell me the new variable speed heat pumps save a lot of energy, because they are not working half the time. Lol! I know that to be a fact with other things like well pumps, so sure didn't want a variable speed heat pump. I think the new refrigerant they are pushing will shorten the life of compressors even more. Sad!

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Has a variable fan, but I never noticed it in mine. Price did jump a little, but still cheap.

 

[Valveman]

Thanks for that. But even the variable fan was more complex than I wanted.

 

[RonL1]

Thanks for that. But even the variable fan was more complex than I wanted.

Now I'm curious, how is that complex... as far as I can tell, it runs the same speed all the time... watts wise (measuring watts used) or air volume from the registers. (And believe me, I have measured and watched both... a lot)

 

[Valveman]

I try to stay away from anything with a Pulse Width Modulator/Inverter. It should run the same speed all the time, which is why the inverter is not needed and just adds another point of failure. I also think the electronics (variable speed) are a more likely cause of a failure than a straight mechanical system.