Constraints of skirted TOTO toilet - wrt to water supply outlet?

[mishyq]

hi, i am now considering Vespin II, Carlyle II and Carolina II TOTO toilets

my question is, because the base is skirted (as opposed to the usual intestine-look), is there anything i have to measure make sure (e.g., in terms of dimension of water supply outlet valve - height from floor, distance from center of toilet drain), before purchasing any of these toilets?

if yes, what are the constraints for each of the toilet below?

please help -- i am a homeowner but toilet noob. and i couldnt figure out by reading the product specs.

Vespin II
https://terrylove.com/pdf/cst474cefg-specs.pdf

Carlyle II
https://terrylove.com/pdf/ms614114cefg_spec.pdf

Carolina II
https://terrylove.com/pdf/ms644164.pdf

 

[WJcandee]

Assuming that: (1) your water supply comes out of the wall, not out of the floor and (2) that your rough-in is precisely 10", precisely 12" or precisely 14" (i.e. the distance from the finished wall to the center of the closet bolts is one of those distances), you should be fine. If the supply is even behind the toilet, you can have a plumber put a 90 on the pipe as it comes out of the wall and run over until there is enough clearance to put in a stop, OR you can use the more-elegant Dahl Skirted Toilet Installation Kit, available at many local plumbing supply places (open the yellow pages and call around) and also at some online plumbing vendors that you can find with a google search. It used to be called the Dahl Toto Skirted Toilet Installation Kit, but they broadened the name because it's not just for Totos, although that's mostly what it's used for.

It's basically a 90 combined with a nice high-quality Dahl quarter-turn mini-ball valve with a handle on the side, so that it doesn't bang against the back of the skirt. And because the whole thing is finished in chrome-ish stuff, it looks nice.

It comes in a number of versions, depending upon what your stub out is made of and how you want to attach it.

Pictures in brochure here: http://www.dahlvalve.com/products/PDFs-catalogs/CDN-Skirted-Toilet-Kits.pdf

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

Supply line location was one of my considerations in going with the Vespin II.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index....baseboard-and-shoe-molding.58080/#post-433607 has a picture and number of that Dahl valve.

 

[mishyq]

thank you both.

yes, i fulfil the 2 criterias mentioned by wjcandee

(1) your water supply comes out of the wall, not out of the floor --- YES, WALL and (2) that your rough-in is precisely 10", precisely 12" or precisely 14" (i.e. the distance from the finished wall to the center of the closet bolts is one of those distances) --- YES, 12"

so looking at the link Reach4 provided, am i right that the back of the skirt of these 3 toilets dont actually end up touching the wall? there's still a tiny bit clearance - or worse case, i just do a 90 degree turn. the nightmare i want to avoid is to do drywall open/repair, because painters are painting the wall right now and the last thing i want is to redo painting

 

[mishyq]

i will take photos of my home;s toilet area today and come back with more questions

 

[Reach4]

o looking at the link Reach4 provided, am i right that the back of the skirt of these 3 toilets dont actually end up touching the wall? there's still a tiny bit clearance - or worse case, i just do a 90 degree turn.

I was dealing with a non-standard situation, and I have my Vespin II touching the shoe molding.
Without doing the very non standard stuff I did, I think there is still some slop in how you position the Unifit adapter.

Not sure, but I think the Vespin II would give between 1 and 1.5 inches to the wall at the height of your water supply. I just did some measurements, but I did not pull out the laser level. I suspect the skirt of the Soiree would give less.

Note with the Unifit adapter toilets, the caulk is even more important than it is with conventional connections. It is the caulk that keeps the front of the toilet from sliding left or right. The only connection to the Unfit by the toilet is by the wall, and that connection is a round tube into a round hole.

I suggest using a level on the toilet when you insert shims.

 

[Gary Swart]

I really line the 90 degree with the Dahl valve idea, but moving a water supply is usually not too difficult. The actual plumber isn't very complex although it may require going through a stud, but studs behind a toilet are not major load bearing, so drilling or notching would work. Patching drywall is pretty straight forward. Repainting would be required, but if you are painting right now, you would only have to repaint the repaired area. Just saying.

 

[Jadnashua]

WHen the flange rough-in is as designed, there is a gap behind the toilet to the wall big enough to run the supply where it may need to go. CLeaner to move it in the wall, though.

 

[mishyq]

Hi Guys,

I did some measurements - please see the photo in this link

http://www.slideshare.net/mishyq/toilet-measurements
or
http://www.slideshare.net/mishyq/toilet-measurements?smtNoRedir=1

Basically
a) 8" = distance from center of toilet drain to the left, ending at water supply outlet
b) 12" = distance from backwall to center of toilet drain
c) 4.5" = height of water supply outlet from tile floor
d) 3.5" = length at which the water supply outlet protrude from the backwall

Questions
i) I am quite concerned with c), because it appears like the water supply needs to be at least 6" above tile floor for Vespin II, Carolina II and Carlyle II in order to avoid it hitting the back part of the toilet skirt base. Am I correct about this?

ii) I am also concerned with d), because I dont know what's the maximum distance the water supply outlet supposed to protrude out before hitting backside of skirt. Anyone can enlighten me?

iii) Looking at my situation per photo attached, am I correct that wjcandee's solution of using Dahl Valve will solve my problem re: c) and d)?
I really dont want to involve any drywall opening and repair, not only because of repainting hassle, but also because the tile baseboard has already been cut to shape of a semi-circle surrounding that area (and if i move the valve away that semi-circle cut will look odd).

Please enlighten the poor noob here...

 

[Reach4]

Here is a photo I just took of Vespin II. Other end of tape is on right side. So looks like about 12 inch wide at base in the back. And there is a slight taper narrower as you go higher. That a) 8" number looks to me as if you have plenty of room. I expect that would be true for most other models as well.

No Dahl valve or other special hardware needed here. You can use an ordinary 1/4 turn ball valve. If things look close at all, I would mount the valve so that the handle is either to the left or vertical. You will want to mount the valve before installing the toilet for easy access. But I am guessing the lever would not hit even if it rotated to the right.

 

[mishyq]

Thank you Reach4. I think i get what you are saying now. Basically 12"-wide skirt base divided by 2, will give you 6 inches from the center of drain. And since my water supply valve is 8" from center of drain, it technically doesnt matter what height (from tile floor) the supply is located [I was just a little confused initially bc the TOTO specs said it has to be 6" high from tile floor, but i dont understand why]

I guess 8" off-center (to the left) will give plenty of room and I certainly appreciate your wisdom that the valve should be mounted in a manner such that it turns left (away from toilet) or stay vertical to avoid any possibility of hitting the edge of skirt. I hope this is an easy fix for the plumber but i presume this require him to tear out the valve again and remount it bc now mine turn right towards the toilet.

From the photo you sent me, it appears there's some empty space behind the Vespin II after installation (such that you can even still fit a measuring tape behind). Assuming you have 12" rough-in, then i assume i will end up having the same space behind too. I hope this doesnt create a nuisance for me to clean dust and grime behind it..........

 

[WJcandee]

Terry has said that the Vespin II, Carlyle II, Carolina II, Soiree and Guinevere can take 5.5" laterally from flange centerline to the centerline of the supply, provided that it is coming out of the wall, so 8" is no problem.

https://terrylove.com/wc/unifit.htm

 

[mishyq]

thanks --- it seem my lateral clearance is fine. i was now concerned abt the height from floor and length protrusion of the water supply line as mentioned above as c) and d). but i think as long as mine is 8" left of center then i dont need to worry ?

 

[Jadnashua]

Toto's recommendation is partly for mechanics (does it fit) and partly for aesthetics. Lower to the floor may mean knocking it with a broom or mop, and it won't be centered on the curve, but should work just fine. The length of the supply hose to the toilet fill valve should not be a problem...at the desired position, you may not need to make a loop with the line. They only come in fixed increments, and it cannot be tight. An alternative to that is to use a solid line in chrome. A little harder to install initially, but some people prefer the look over a hose.

 

[WJcandee]

The other reason that they give it to you like that is in case you want to do a hardline from the water supply valve to the inlet of the toilet fill valve. Nobody really does that these days, but some like the look. (In NYC, you're still supposed to use a hardline, but many now don't.)

 

[mishyq]

OK. I just went to do the measurements for 2 other toilets in my house

Apparently in these 2 toilets, the following are the measurements

Hall bath
a) 5.5" = distance from center of toilet drain to the left, ending at water supply outlet
b) 12" = distance from backwall to center of toilet drain
c) 4.5" = height of water supply outlet from tile floor
d) 3.5" = length at which the water supply outlet protrude from the backwall

Master bath
a) 4.5" = distance from center of toilet drain to the left, ending at water supply outlet
b) 12" = distance from backwall to center of toilet drain
c) 4.5" = height of water supply outlet from tile floor
d) 3.5" = length at which the water supply outlet protrude from the backwall

I guess it may still be possible to use skirted base for Hall bath, BUT i defintely cannot use skirted base for Master bath then?

 

[Jadnashua]

With that 'proper' rough-in, you should be able to put a right-angle on the pipe stub coming out of the wall, run the pipe far enough out to where you can then add the new shutoff, otherwise, you'd not be able to reach the valve. The toilet does not go tight up against the wall, so there is a gap there. The other alternative is to open up the wall and move the supply. Where there is a will, there is a way.

 

[mishyq]

ok Jadnashua - so basically even with a 4.5 " center-left distance of water supply, i can use the 90 degree Dahl Valve to solve the problem, right?

 

[Jadnashua]

If this doesn't move it over far enough, it can be extended http://www.dahlvalve.com/products/mini-ball-valves/skirted-toilet-kits.php contact them for their thoughts.

 

[WJcandee]

If this doesn't move it over far enough, it can be extended http://www.dahlvalve.com/products/mini-ball-valves/skirted-toilet-kits.php contact them for their thoughts.

Once you put the Dahl on, you won't need an extension or to move it over any further. The braided hose is the extension. The Dahl moves the valve out of the way and makes the connection into a vertical one, so you just attach the hose and go.