Considering Fleck 9100 SXT water softener

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wuffers

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I've finally got my system today, I must thank everyone who replied or PMed me with info or recommendations.

It ended up being: Fleck 5810 XTR2 valve with 2.0 cu ft. resin tank (12" x 52"), 10% cross-link resin, gravel bed and round brine tank. I didn't see them load up the gravel bed or resin, as it came already pre-assembled when the installer delivered it.

The installer took close to 3 hours hooking things up, and let me choose where the unit ended up. The only gripe I have is that the bypass I wanted to the backyard couldn't be done, as the turn-off was in another room in the basement and we couldn't tell if it had other pipes branching to other areas of the house. Since my basement is already finished, I ended up with the hard water bypass going to the garage spigot (that's the picture with the blue PVC pipe).

I've included other pictures of the system with his other connections.

So.. here's another bunch of questions.

As the installer left,
  • He ran the regen cycle, but at that point we didn't have any salt in the brine tank (I didn't have any). I'm guessing this is SOP?
  • Told me to run the tap for 10 minutes, which I subsequently did. The water was very cloudy at the beginning, then cleared up a few minutes in. Should I expect this every regeneration?
  • Told me to add some additional water in the brine tank. I just checked it, and it's sitting at 2". What level should this be at? Is this something that should be adjusted manually (adding water), or some settings on the unit?
  • Told me to add 3-4 bags of salt for the initial seeding, over the water level. With 2" of water, I doubt I'll even need one bag. He said to keep the brine tank between 1/4 to 2/3 full afterwards.
I did test the water after the 10 minute open tap and got 2 gpG. Shouldn't this be under 1? Should I trigger another regen after adding salt?

So when he did the programming, the only thing that he changed was the Media volume and salt dosage (that I wanted) setting, as far as configuration goes. He wanted to set the hardness to 15 gpG, but I had already tested to 8 gpG (city report states 7.5), so finally we set it to 10 (as per recommendation above, to set 2-3 above the tested hardness).

I noticed the phone icon had another company and phone number configured, so he changed that as well. I'm assuming that the unit was originally from the other company. I saw that the number of regens was already at 11 (now 12), so that's probably why he could regen without any salt (pre-configuration/prep)?

Here are the unit's settings:

Format
Language: English
Units: us
Hardness units: gpG
Interval: month based
Month: 12

Valve
Valve: 5800
Regen type: softener mtr. delayed
Media volume: 2.00 ft3
Salt dosage: 6lbs/ft3
Blfc size: 0.500gpm
Capacity: 40000
Hardness: 10 gpG
Sensor sensitivity: na
Day override/time-driven: 30d
Regen. time: 02:00am
Reserve: weekly reserve

I set the day override to 30 days. Based on our current usage, at 6 lbs of salt per regen, it'll take slightly over 31 days based on usage. I'm assuming BLFC size and the weekly reserve setting are correct.

Regeneration
Regen. flow: downflow
Step #1: backwash
Time 1: 10m
Step #2: draw
Time 2: 60m
Step #3: rapid rinse
Time 3: 10m
Step #4: tank refill
Time 4: 7m

Any settings here that need to be tweaked?

Relay output
Auxiliary 1 off
Auxiliary 2 off

Meter
Meter type: 0.75" paddle
Generic: na
Plumbing leak detect: off

Assuming this is all correct.

Remote regeneration
Remote signal duration off
 

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wuffers

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I did test the water after the 10 minute open tap and got 2 gpG. Shouldn't this be under 1? Should I trigger another regen after adding salt?

Never mind.. I did another hardness test after running a dishwasher cycle, and I'm getting a blue result right away. Yay!

Valve
Valve: 5800

Regen type: softener mtr. delayed
Media volume: 2.00 ft3
Salt dosage: 6lbs/ft3
Blfc size: 0.500gpm
Capacity: 40000
Hardness: 10 gpG
Sensor sensitivity: na
Day override/time-driven: 30d
Regen. time: 02:00am
Reserve: weekly reserve

I changed the BLFC size after opening up the cover and seeing it saying 0.25gpm on the sticker, as well as the valve to 5810 (I guess this is cosmetic only).
 

Bannerman

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There is expected to be some broken resin beads 'Fines' which will be flushed to drain during the initial few regeneration cycles. There will also be air bubbles being released from within the resin and gravel beds, contributing to the initial cloudiness.

It is generally advisable to add 1/2 cup of un-scented bleach to the resin tank and perform a regeneration so as to sanitize the resin, tank and valve internals.

New resin is ready to go and does not require regeneration right away so the hardness tested should be quite low. If there is hardness scale in the lines, the softened water will cause that to dissolve over time so there maybe some hardness remaining until the scale is eventually eliminated. Same goes for the water heater.

Six lbs per cuft on a 2 cuft softener, is appropriate for 40K grains of usable capacity. The brine tank liquid height will vary depending on the displacement of the salt remaining. As such, the water volume in the brine tank is controlled by a time setting.

For your 12 lb salt setting, 4 gallons of water would be required. As the BLFC button is sized to deliver 0.5 gpm, then the brine fill time setting would be 8 minutes. As brine fill is typically last in the cycle, that will prepare brine for the next regeneration cycle. With a new install, water will need to be added to the brine tank manually so as to prepare for the first full regeneration. There is no harm in adding some additional water to ensure the full amount of salt is dissolved for the first cycle.
 
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ditttohead

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Sounds like you have a few settings off. See blue below, sorry, on the road but I think below is correct. If you set the valve to 5800 instead of 5810 the piston will home in the wrong position. The turbine reading is also quite different and will cause the meter to read incorrectly. Sorry if I misread anything but...


Format

Language: English
Units: us
Hardness units: gpG
Interval: month based
Month: 12 Usually off

Valve
Valve: 5800 5810
Regen type: softener mtr. delayed
Media volume: 2.00 ft3
Salt dosage: 6lbs/ft3
Blfc size: 0.25gpm
Capacity: 40000
Hardness: 10 gpG
Sensor sensitivity: na
Day override/time-driven: 30d
Regen. time: 02:00am
Reserve: weekly reserve

I set the day override to 30 days. Based on our current usage, at 6 lbs of salt per regen, it'll take slightly over 31 days based on usage. I'm assuming BLFC size and the weekly reserve setting are correct.

Regeneration
Regen. flow: downflow
Step #1: backwash
Time 1: 6m
Step #2: draw
Time 2: 60m
Step #3: rapid rinse
Time 3: 10m
Step #4: tank refill
Time 4:16-17m

Any settings here that need to be tweaked?

Relay output
Auxiliary 1 off
Auxiliary 2 off

Meter
Meter type: 1.25 turbine
Generic: na
Plumbing leak detect: off
 
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wuffers

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I did add 3 bags initially and added the water slightly under it. It's about 2/5 full, but that's 120+lbs so it should be enough for quite a few months until I need to refill.

I did change the valve type to 5810 and the BLFC size after looking at the sticker. I suspect the installer doesn't work with this valve or the XTR2 much, and only changed the media volume setting.

I'm going to adjust the reserve setting as well. It's currently set to weekly reserve, and the system is saying that is 1600 gallons. The trigger point seems to be 2400 gallons, based on the totalizer and the next regen number (40K capacity = 4000 gallons @ 10 gpG). I just changed this to 5% (200 gallons), which is more than our current daily usage.

The diagnostics page has a "daily usage" but the average shown there is a fixed value. I noticed that before when the reserve was set to weekly, this showed up as 1333 gallons, now that I have it set to 5%, it now shows 200 gallons. Is this supposed to be a log of what my usage is?

The tank refill showed up as 17m now that the BLFC is changed to 0.25 gpm. Is 8m still correct (that means 2 gallons) for 12 lbs of salt? You decreased the backwash from 10m to 6m, is this for efficiency or some other reason?
 

ditttohead

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Leave it at weekly reserve, it will build an algorithm over the next 6 weeks.

I corrected the time, 16-17 is correct.

The default backwash and fast rinse rates are generic settings designed to work under the worst water conditions. High iron, high sediment etc. This long of a backwash/fast rinse is not really needed in most applications.
 

wuffers

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Ouch, 6 weeks? Alright - set this back to the weekly reserve. It's currently saying 1333 gallons as the reserve. Will just have to be patient for now. My average daily should be about 150 gallons per day.

Checked the service manual:
Reserves can be set at a Fixed Volume, Fixed Percentage of capacity, a Variable Reserve based on the previous calendar day's water usage, or a Weekly Reserve based on the average water usage for the current day of the week.

It's a bit disingenuous to call it a "weekly reserve".

So it looks like only the backwash time needs to be adjusted, as the rinse rate was already set to 10m.

Thanks, and I'll keep an eye on it. I guess the next regen number will fluctuate as the system adjusts its algorithm after monitoring my daily usage.
 

ditttohead

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It is a daily reserve based on a 6 week average... no need to overthink it, let the algorithm do the thinking for you. The basic premise is that the system will learn long term water patterns. If you regularly use large amounts of water on Saturday (washday) the system may regenerate on Friday if it is getting close to capacity. If it sees that on Wednesday you only average 40 gallons, it may wait an extra day... just let the smart control do its job, don't worry about the little stuff.
 

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Found this thread and seems like some pretty knowledgeable people!
I'm having some awful issues with our municipal water that we need to resolve.
Our fish all died and I'm pretty sure it was due to a spike in chloramines as a test for ammonia/chlorine was a lot higher than it was a week after the fish died. We had the city come and take a sample, but of course according to them everything was fine. Not winning that battle.

My significant other is having her hair fall out (literally), and we need to fix this asap.
We live in Broomfield, CO where the water is better than most places in the US.
I spoke with the head of the water department and was advised that the average hardness of the water supplied to us over the last 18 months is 2.5gpg which on the face of it seems very low. So what could be causing these issues with my significant other's hair? Chloramines?

I was originally looking at the Pelican premium system which has a filtration tank and a separate "softener" (actually a water conditioner that works on ion exchange rather than using salt/brine tank) plus a UV system that I really like. The Pelican system would be an easier install as our garden sprinkler system is all part of the same line and a separate line would have to be run (we have access under the basement floor) to separate a salt based softener from the garden supply.
But I'm just not sure what system would be ultimately best for us?

I was looking at Fleck based systems from 602ABCwaters that have one tank with the brine/salt container plus systems that have 2 tanks.
We have a large 6500 sq ft home with 4 baths, but only 2 people live here. That's not to say we will always be here so wondered if the 2 tanks system might be better for resale as a large family could end up living here?

I've read that salt based softening systems corrode copper pipes - our home is 100% all copper piping, no pex.
Plus apparently the salt in the water can cause it's own issues with hair?

I am thinking the issue with the water is probably contaminants, but the city could be giving me bad info on water hardness so I'm hoping to get some advice on what might be the best system.
Sorry if this is a little vague, but I just am at a loss because there's so many systems and some wacky ones (Halo 5 with it's magnets and ionizer which is pseudo-science quackery).

Thanks.
 

Reach4

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Found this thread
To create a new thread, click the name of the forum.
Then click "Post New Thread" (blue button) on the right above the existing
threads and below the search box.

Our fish all died and I'm pretty sure it was due to a spike in chloramines as a test for ammonia/chlorine was a lot higher than it was a week after the fish died.
Measuring Chloromines can be tricky. What I don't know is whether chloromines that have been consumed doing their job shows up in a total chlorine test. I would look at
http://www.lamotte.com/en/drinking-water/test-strips/2963lr-g.html total chlorine test strips
http://www.lamotte.com/en/water-wastewater/test-strips/2964-g.html free chlorine (chloromine is not free chlorine).
http://www.lamotte.com/en/education/water-monitoring/3027.html tests both total and free.
LaMotte 3027-G https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/insta-test-free-total-chlorine-strips-lamotte.html

As I read it, the technique to remove chloromines, is to run the water through a big tank of catalytic carbon. That media gets backwashed periodically. I don't know how to size that, but 2.5 cubic ft of media is a commonly used big tank.

That can be followed by a softener if you want to also soften the water. When programming and sizing a softener, you usually care about the maximum hardness rather than the average.
 

Globespy

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Thanks. Yes, I already have this.
Of course the government would never tell lies....... the water looks great so what's killing our fish and making my girl's hair fall out?

I did a test using one of the test strips and on the surface things actually look good. The water is indeed soft to very soft, chlorine within safe levels etc.
Looks like a salt-based water softener might indeed be overkill? Maybe the Pelican system with the water conditioner (one Amazon review said it reduced water hardness from 11gpg to 5gpg which is significant if I'm starting with water that's below 5pgp at it's maximum?
I'm so confused....
 

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Reach4

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I was originally looking at the Pelican premium system which has a filtration tank and a separate "softener" (actually a water conditioner that works on ion exchange rather than using salt/brine tank)
Regular water softeners work by exchanging ions, such as calcium and magnesium, for sodium ions. The salt provides the sodium ions.

Maybe the Pelican system with the water conditioner (one Amazon review said it reduced water hardness from 11gpg to 5gpg which is significant if I'm starting with water that's below 5pgp at it's maximum?
I am skeptical of a saltless softeners (but I would include potassium chloride as expensive salt in this context). Maybe that review you read was by a well-meaning person who had water like you do-- changes with the season based on the mix of snow melt vs well water.

Regarding the hair problems, I don't know the cause. It is possible that it could be something other than the water, but I cannot explain the fish deaths. If you are serious about the fish, consider getting a reverse osmosis system. You usually want to soften the water before feeding it to the RO unit.

I am not a pro.
 
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