Cloudy water after backflushing

Users who are viewing this thread

Richard Cropper

New Member
Messages
18
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
Berlin, Maryland
First time posting here, I have a Fleck 7000SXT system about 2 years old. No problems till within the last 4 weeks. It seems to be that after back flushing the water, the house water has a lot of iron in it. You can notice it easily. I went out and checked and changed some of the settings to what I found with some other people with similar hardness. I go out run it through another back wash cycle, run the water off through a hose for about 30 minutes and everything seems to be good for about a week or two. I just bought some ResCare with the feeder to try and see if it fixes anything. I can get the settings from the system and post them if needed or answer any questions. Just let me know, thank you!
 

Bannerman

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,795
Reaction score
768
Points
113
Location
Ontario, Canada
Although you didn't actually state it, I expect you are referring to a softener.
The Fleck 7000 valve is also utilized on various types of water treatment filters so it's best to verify.

Your water test results are needed including hardness, iron and manganese quantities. If other test numbers are known, post them also. If your water source is municipal, I expect it will be chlorinated so iron and manganese should no longer be a issue. Although you mention cloudy water which you suspect is iron, iron often can't be seen until being oxidized after exposure to air.

Additional info required is the number of occupants and the softener size (either cu/ft or total grains capacity). If that info is not known, measure the resin tank as total capacity maybe estimated. Also, the BLFC info which will likely be specified on a label near the brine connection. You may post the current and prior settings as that may assist in diagnosing what is occurring.
 
Last edited:

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,798
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
Attached img_1.png shows a form with lots of blanks, for settings for a Fleck 7000SXT softener. The third column describes many meanings. Do at least get the B1, B2, and RR numbers as well as the numbers that Bannerman said.

System info (not programmed)
BLFC=
cubic ft resin or tank size=
Raw hardness=
Iron, Manganese if known=
Estimated gal/day (60 gal/person typ)=

Fleck 7000SXT Settings:
DF=Gal
VT=dF2b
CT=Fd
N=
C=
H=
RS=
CR=
DO=
RT=
B1=
Bd=
B2=
RR=
BF=
FM=t1.2 (usually)
 

Attachments

  • img_1.png
    img_1.png
    17.6 KB · Views: 430
Last edited:

Richard Cropper

New Member
Messages
18
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
Berlin, Maryland
It is a Fleck7000SXZT Softener
System info (not programmed)
BLFC= .250
cubic ft resin or tank size= 54"x10" 42,000 grain
Raw hardness= 8
Iron, Manganese if known= Can't remember what test said, I do remember him saying something about iron though.
Estimated gal/day (60 gal/person typ)= 120G, 2 adults, 1 infant

Fleck 7000SXT Settings:
DF=Gal
VT=dF2b
CT=Fd
N= Not listed
C= 35
H= 8
RS= cr
CR= Not listed
DO= 7
RT= 2:00am
B1= 6
Bd= 60
B2= 3
RR= 6
BF= 27
FM=t1.2 (usually)

I had said the iron in the water at the faucet because I filled a clear glass full of water and after letting it sit for an hour slowly poured it out and in the bottom you could see reddish brown floating around. The tester never said anything about manganese but did say we have nitrates in our water, it is a rural well. Let me know if there is anything else needed, sorry for the slow response, was working all yesterday. Thank you!
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,798
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
I suggest a new water test. I like http://www.karlabs.com/watertestkit/ kit60. You will have to sterilize the sample faucet if the bacteria test is to be meaningful.

Until you get the test results and/or somebody has a better idea, I would go with something like this:
System info (not programmed)
salt lb/cuft : 6
BLFC : 0.25
cubic ft resin : 1.5
Raw hardness : 12.0
Estimated gal/day : 180.0
Estimated days each regen : 12.6


Fleck 7000SXT Settings:
DF = Gal
VT = dF2b
CT = Fd
C = 30.0
H = 12.0
RS = cr
DO = 7.0
RT = 2:00
B1 = 8.0
Bd = 60.0
B2 = 5.0
RR = 10.0
BF = 12.0

This is not much different than what you have currently, so maybe doing nothing different until after you get your water test results is best. It is probably the DO=7 which is the controlling factor anyway. Increasing the H level is to compensate for unknown iron in the interim. I am suggesting a little less salt to save salt. Some may think your current salt dose is better in the face of iron.

I would also be planning on doing some kind of filtering first depending on the test results. If ferrous iron is high, I would have a backwashing iron filter at the front end (looks like another softener). This could also handle hydrogen sulfide and particles. If you don't do the backwashing filter, I would insert a Pentek Big Blue 4.5x20 filter housing and a cartridge for particles. Having the backwashing filter followed by a Big Blue is even better.
 
Last edited:

Bannerman

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,795
Reaction score
768
Points
113
Location
Ontario, Canada
Without accurate test results, it is impossible to diagnose or make proper recommendations. At best, all anyone can do is guess.

Each ppm of iron is equivalent to 4 grains of hardness whereas each ppm of manganese is equivalent to 2 grains. If the softener is exposed to either, then the 'H' setting would need to be set to a higher number than just the actual hardness amount. Some of the programming suggestions Reach4 provided are a guess as he suggested changing the hardness setting to 12 which compensates for 1ppm of iron in addition to your 8 grains of actual hardness. Your iron could be lower or it could be much higher.

A 0.25 BLFC X 27 minute BF = 6.75 gallons entering the brine tank. As each gallon will dissolve 3 lbs of salt, your current salt setting is then 20.25 lbs. Only 12 lbs of salt should normally be required to restore 35,000 grains capacity which is your current 'C' setting.

While a softener can be utilized to remove moderate amounts of iron, without regular ongoing maintenance, iron will eventually foul softening resin and impair its ability to function. Although you correctly performed an extra regeneration cycle, IF your resin is fouled, the extra cycle may have done little to remove the iron deposits, particiularly if your water pH is above 7.0.

Resin cleaners contain acid to assist the salt brine to clean away iron deposits. You mention ResCare and a feeder but the small quantity added with a feeder is more appropriate as a preventative maintenance technique as opposed to a corrective treatment for an existing condition.

For an acute iron problem, add the entire 1 gal ResCare bottle to a 3 - 5 gal plastic bucket, fill the remaining bucket with warm water, disconnect the brine line at the brine tank, place the line into the bucket, advance the controller to BD to draw the entire bucket of cleaning solution into the resin tank. To extend contact time, once the bucket is empty, shut off the incoming water feed and electrical power to the softener. After 10-15 minutes, restore power and water flow to permit the cleaner to be rinsed away during the remaining BD cycle. Remember to reconnect the brine line. Once the BD cycle has completed, advance the controller to initiate a complete manual regeneration cycle to help ensure the softening capacity is restored. Before initiating the regeneration cycle, reset the programming as Reach4 had suggested.

Edit to add: As some have now experienced Tannin issues that initally presented as being an iron issue, is there any musty or odd odor or initial off color to the water?
 
Last edited:

Richard Cropper

New Member
Messages
18
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
Berlin, Maryland
Thank you guys! I will get a test done and get the results back on here once I get them back. No there is no musty odor to the water but I mean it does look dingy when it comes out, I'm guessing after that regen cycle. I don't know what you would consider an "off" color. I went out and changed all the settings on the system so I will keep and eye on it and report back once I get the results. Thank you!
 

Richard Cropper

New Member
Messages
18
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
Berlin, Maryland
Also forgot to ask in the previous post. Where would be the best bet for taking the water sample? Turn the softener system to bypass and run it for a minute then take a sample from the faucet about 3 feet from the system or somewhere else? Thank you!
 

Bannerman

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,795
Reaction score
768
Points
113
Location
Ontario, Canada
Obtaining a sample from before the softener would be preferred. If there is no means to obtain a sample, then the method you described would be the next best. Flush the line between the softener bypass and the valve adequately to ensure the sample obtained is 100% raw water, not mixed with water from the softener.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,798
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
Outside faucets normally do not get fed through the softener. Sterilize the faucet if you want the bacteria tests to be meaningful, and then run the water for many minutes before drawing your sample.
 

Richard Cropper

New Member
Messages
18
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
Berlin, Maryland
I have attached the results of the test from KAR labs, let me know what you guys think. If there any questions of the setup I have know please feel free to ask any questions. New to this thing and just want to make sure everything is good for our family. Thank you!
 

Attachments

  • 600311.pdf
    76.7 KB · Views: 403

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,798
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
I think you could use a soda ash injector and contact tank or other pH treatment. Soda ash Na2CO3 has the advantage of not raising the hardness.

I think these results were very unexpected.

Corrosivity, Langelier Index -3.9
Corrosivity, Ryznar Index 13.6
PH 5.8
Iron, total 1.16 mg/L
Hardness (gpg) 1.1
 

Richard Cropper

New Member
Messages
18
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
Berlin, Maryland
Yeah when I was looking at the results it seemed unexpected to me with some of the values. So keep the programmed settings I have now on the softener? Could it of just been some fluke thing that the water became that dingy color? What would be the benefit of the soda ash injector?
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,798
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
I don't know about the dingy color.

Soda ash injector is to raise the pH. I am not suggesting that you go order something now. I think you need input from somebody with more knowledge, because there will be interactions.

The more common way to handle low pH water is calcite + corosex in a backwashed tank. That is effective and safe. It does raise hardness. Do look at the alternatives after getting more info.

Avoid adding metal that would be in long-term contact with your un-neutralized water. Do expect your water to be corrosive on metals.
 

Bannerman

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,795
Reaction score
768
Points
113
Location
Ontario, Canada
What would be the benefit of the soda ash injector?
Your water is highly acidic. A pH of 7.0 is neutral whereas below 7 is acidic and above 7 is 'base' or alkylene. The respective strength will increase the farther the test numbers move away from 7.

Since your water is so acidic, it will be corrosive to any metal plumbing. What materials are used for your plumbing feed lines?

As R4 specified, Calcite or Calcite + Corosex are two common methods to raise pH. Since your water is so far below 7, those methods may not be effective enough in raising the pH so soda ash injection would likely be more effective. Although your water is not comparable in hardness or iron, you may want to view this thread: https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/interesting-observation-regarding-ph.64039/

You have virtually no hardness to speak of so you actually don't need a softener. Your softener is mostly being utilized to reduce a modest amount of iron, but there are better and more efficient methods of iron reduction. Iron reduction usually needs to be performed and is more effective at higher pH levels.

Your acidic water has acted as resin cleaner thereby keeping the iron from accumulating on the resin, making the ResCare treatment unnecessary. Once the pH is raised, the softener resin then will be more prone to iron fouling if you continue to use the softener for iron reduction.

Off color, would be any color tint observed throughout the water. Tannins will usually produce a yellow > brown tint, similar in appearance to tea although it could also be less apparent. As you mention 'dingy', what color would that be?

Although sulfur is indicated in the report, you didn't specify any 'rotten egg' or sulfur odor being an issue so I take-it that there are no odor concerns?
 
Last edited:

Richard Cropper

New Member
Messages
18
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
Berlin, Maryland
We have all pex and pvc piping in our house and barn. What soda ash setup would you recommend for what I have now? Also would it be more cost efficient/better to keep using the softener to reduce the iron or install a katalox filter? We are expecting a second child in August so money is going to be an issue for a bit but if it's something I need or should do I can understand and will do it.

With the dingy water, it is like a yellow/brown color. Builds up rather quickly you could see it on the toilets bowls. Usually within 12 to 14 days its pretty noticeable on the bottom of the bowl.

There has been no odor in our water, I figured there would be sulfur just because my parents house 2 miles away has really bad sulfur but we have never had a problem.
 

Richard Cropper

New Member
Messages
18
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
Berlin, Maryland
So this morning went to give the dogs some water from the sink and noticed the "dingy" color again. I guess it is really pronounced in there metal bowl but I have attached a picture to show you the difference. The left glass is same water but ran through the reverse osmosis under the sink, the right is straight from the sink. I believe it did just back flush again but I ran outside to run it through another back flush and I am going to check the gallons after that too make sure that it did recently back flush. Any ideas? Also once the water settles in the right glass I will dump some out and show you what sinks to the bottom.

oT3KWzh.jpg
 

Richard Cropper

New Member
Messages
18
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
Berlin, Maryland
So after letting that water sit for a little over 48 hours it never cleared up. I slowly dumped the water out leaving some in the bottom and transfered to a small glass bowl to better see what settled. Once it settles again I will post a picture but its like a brownish color it looked like.

I also went out to check the regen gallons and it had just regen'd about 40 gallons ago. Did another regen, flushed the lines and clear water again. I marked the calendar to better track it and see if its doing it on the DO. Any ideas on what I need to do to stop this dingy water? Thanks!

Here is what I have gotten down to in the water. It's the best picture I could get.
A1Lp0Mx.jpg
 
Last edited:

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,798
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
I don't know what that precipitate is. Rust? Organic material? I would think there would be some kind of test, such as try dissolving a particle in x.

I have seen rust particles. Your material somehow looks softer, but there are limits to photos.
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks