Closet flange complete gone - how to reset toilet?

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by rmgolob, Aug 5, 2019.

  1. rmgolob

    rmgolob Member

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    Dec 16, 2016
    Location:
    Indiana
    I have a toilet that needs to be re-set. The metal closet flange was completely rusted away.
    Please see pictures and advise best procedure to get this back in place.
    The wood was some fairly substantial rot where the old flange bolts anchored it to the floor.
    If I can add something and keep the wood - great. Can I add some wood filler to substantiate the wood.
    If not, I guess I will have to cut a piece out and splice a new one in. Would 6-8 inches north and south of the pipe give sufficient strength to hold the toilet?
    Even if the wood was good, how do I put on a new flange? The lip of the pipe is above the wood. The tile fits just between the lip and the wood.
    I bought a replacement closet flange, but it would sit on top of the lip.
    What info am I missing that will allow you all you all to help me?
    Thank you in advance.
     

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  2. cjlambert

    cjlambert Red-Seal Licensed Plumber

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    If you want to properly fasten the flange to the subfloor, then it looks like you will have to cut a square out around the flange (as you suggested) and install a new piece of plywood. I would cut 16” x 16”, joist to joist.

    While you have the floor open, you can chop that fitting off the top of the pipe, and use an mj band to attach a new flange at the correct height.

    If you want to avoid cutting the floor, you could buy an inside/cheater flange, which gets glued to the inside of the pipe.

    Once the tile is laid and the toilet is installed, you could run a bead of silicone around the toilet to adhere it to the tile. Just remember to leave the back side of the toilet un-siliconed, so if your gasket ever starts leaking, you’ll know about it before it turns into a major problem in the room below.
     
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  4. MASTERPLUMB777

    MASTERPLUMB777 In the Trades

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    get one of these at Lowes
    Oatey Stainless Steel Flange
    it anchors around your existing pipe
     
  5. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    WHen making a patch in plywood subflooring, it's best if you can make the patch large enough to span two joist bays...that means that the ends are not only hanging onto the joist...there's a support in the middle to help keep it from flexing as much when you can attach it to three joists. If you do try to make a smaller patch, you'll want to put blocking in to support the edges especially if you plan to add tile which really do not like movement you'd get if the patch were smaller.

    The reason why the people here recommend a flange with a SS ring is explicitly for your situation...the painted steel ones do tend to rust out, especially if the toilet can rock and the wax ring fails.
     
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  6. hj

    hj Master Plumber

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    Get a "2 piece stainless steel flange" available everywhere and secure it around your riser.
     
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  7. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    I think hj is referring to a split repair ring such as Sioux Chief 886-MRM or Oatey 42777 Moss Bay is a split repair ring.
     
  8. rmgolob

    rmgolob Member

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    Thank you for the reply.
    I Think I can get a 16x16 splice in there. I assume that is best solution? As opposed to leaving the old wood.
    What is an mj band? (Google gets tons of Michael Jackson references)
    An insert is an option, but I dont think I want to give up ID - Correct?
    Yup, sure will seal the front to the floor.
     
  9. rmgolob

    rmgolob Member

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    Thanks for the reply.
    I assume you mean a split ring like some have mentioned below?
    I cannot find any Oatey Stainless split flanges - Either SS in 1 piece or galvanized in 2 piece.
     
  10. cjlambert

    cjlambert Red-Seal Licensed Plumber

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    MJ = mechanical joint. It's a rubber coupling with a metal jacket and two 5/16" gear clamps.
    Google "MJ Band Plumbing" to sneak a peak.
     
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  11. rmgolob

    rmgolob Member

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    Thanks for the reply.
    Spanning 3 joists will be difficult at best. By blocking I assume you mean to add 2x4's under the spliced 16x16 to help it from sagging?
    I agree on SS, but as I said above, I can only find SS in a 1 piece - which would be OK only if I cut off the existing flange. I'd prefer not to, but certainly could.

    Side note - Is brass OK or only SS?
     
  12. rmgolob

    rmgolob Member

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    Thanks for the reply.
    Great suggestion. The only SS i can find are 1 piece.
     
  13. cjlambert

    cjlambert Red-Seal Licensed Plumber

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    Your interpretation of “blocking” is correct. Brass is acceptable.
     
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  14. rmgolob

    rmgolob Member

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    This one appears to be SS and split.
    Some say SS in description, but in details they state galvanized.
     
  15. rmgolob

    rmgolob Member

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  16. rmgolob

    rmgolob Member

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  17. cjlambert

    cjlambert Red-Seal Licensed Plumber

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    Take a look a the outlet on the bottom of your toilet. It's about 2". You'll be fine to reduce your ID by ¼", considering the pipe is 3".
     
  18. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    https://www.oatey.com/2374591/Product/N/Oatey-Moss-Bay-Replacement-Flange But the term "strainer material" is weird.
    https://www.lowes.com/pd/Oatey-Stainless-Steel-Flange/1000126903

    https://www.grainger.com/product/HARVEY-Toilet-Flange-5PA60
    https://www.lifeandhome.com/products/william-harvey-014710-toilet-flange-repair-ring-1-4
    The Harvey is clearly marked stainless steel on the package.

    https://www.acehardware.com/departments/plumbing/toilets/toilet-repair-parts/4390993 says stainless, but I also see references to galvanized. I also find the discrepancy bothering.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  19. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    https://www.oatey.com/2374591/Product/Oatey-Moss-Bay-Replacement-Flange Their LEEDS spec sheet says it's made of SS. The manufacturer's data sheet doesn't say. Note, the manufacturer's P/N versus the one at Lowes, the Lowes one has an additional digit at the end, so it could be different and made specifically for them versus what you might find at a plumbing supply store. But, yes, they are available in SS.
     
  20. rmgolob

    rmgolob Member

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    Thanks for the reply.
    I called Oatey and their split flange is galvanized, not SS. They only have a 1 piece SS, a 1 piece brass, and a 2 piece galvanized.
    Yes, the Harvey appears to be SS.
    I THINK the clam flange in post #14 is SS. Trying to confirm.
     
  21. rmgolob

    rmgolob Member

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    Thanks for the reply.
    I called Oatey and unfortunately the only split flange they have is galvanized.
     
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