Clayton or Dartmouth decision help please!

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wdarner

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We are looking for a traditional toilet for a powder room remodel in our 20's era home. After a long learning curve, mostly with info from this site and one other, we have decided to steer clear of Kohler and go with a Toto. We have narrowed it down to the Clayton or the Dartmouth, or possibly the Guinevere (mostly out of our price, though). I have a few questions, any input appreciated...

1. On Terry's ratings, the Dartmouth is said to be a traditional twin to the Drake in performance, both rated at 900 grams, while the Clayton is rated at 675 grams. All three are G-Max toilets. Wondering what about the Clayton lowers it's rating?

2. Trying to decide on G-Max version (tried and true) and eco E-Max version (more water savings, but newer design with less established history). I know this has been discussed, but I'm still confused on which one to go with. I read somewhere the E-Max can be converted between 1.6 and 1.28?

3. Have read about some installation problems specific to the Clayton, involving difficulty attaching the tank to the bowl. Some have had problems seating them properly with reports of cracked bowls and tanks. Anyone have experience with this?

4. Clayton tank has an interesting forward bulge which bumps against the seat back when it is up. Anyone know if this has been a problem with knocking the seat back into the bowl?

5. Neither comes in CEFIONTECT. Should I seek out a different choice or just not worry about it? We've thought about upgrading to the Guinevere (CEFIONTECT, Double Cyclone, seat included) but it would be a stretch price-wise. Is it worth the upgrade?

Thanks for any input anyone can provide!

Wayne
 
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Terry

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Performance ratings can vary depending on the particular bowl, tank settings, or how they wrap or don't wrap the media when testing.
Any MaP rating over 500 grams is excellent. Worrying about whether the rating is more then that doesn't make much sense. I've used Toto toilets that were tested years ago with the old testing media that rated at 325 grams, working much better in homeuse then the Kohler rated at 650 grams.
I've found that I learn a lot more by installing in a home then I do testing on a platform. At some point, you have to use the friggin' things and get out of school. I'm a firm believer in the real world versus thinking about it. On many choices, it's a left or right, up or down, a 50/50 choice. How much time does it take if you just choose one quickly.
You'll find out soon enough if you picked right.
I love bolting in different bowls and finding out the easy way.

The tanks on the Toto bowls attach easily.
I can't imagine someone having a problem installing a two bolt tank.
We snug up the big nut, push on the foam washer, set the tank on the bowl and tighten the tank to the bowl.

It's so easy a caveman could do it.

The Clayton and the Dartmouth, for all general purposes are the same toilet with slightly different looks.
The best seats for them are the Toto softclose seats.
Either the SS154 or the SS114
The seats work very well on them, and yes they stay up just fine.

If you have bad water, then the CEFIONTECT would be more noticeable for keeping the bowl clean. It's a very smooth surface.
I have some customers that live on wells that like the CEFIONTECT.

The Guinevere is pretty badass though.

cst754_minch_zoom.jpg

Dartmouth with SS154 seat
 
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wdarner

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Thanks, Terry,

That helps clarify some things for me. Maybe I'm over-researching a bit ... it wouldn't be the first time!

One more question ... I've noticed the Drake II with the Double Cyclone and the Sanigloss. Seems like a plain-Jane version of the Guinevere at a much reduced cost. Ignoring the skirted vs non-skirted tanks, will it functionally perform about the same as the Guinevere? Seems like a great choice, even if it's plainer than the other models we're looking at.

Wayne
 

Terry

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I've been selling a lot of the Drake II's
It's a bargain right now.
It looks like it should function like the Soiree and Guinevere. However that being said, the MaP is 800 grams and the other are less.
All of them over the magic 500 though, so taking in the allowance for variable testing, they all seem to be working.
 

wdarner

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OK, we talked it over and decided the Drake II is just a little too plain and modern for our space, so I think we have settled on the Clayton. Now the last decision is G-Max vs E-Max. One side of me says to go with the proven history of the G-Max version. The other side of me wants to save as much water as possible, so I'm drawn to the E-Max. G-Max version is rated at 675 grams, E-Max at 500 grams. In the end, I'm sure we'll be happy with either one. No CEFIONTECT, though ... not an option on the Clayton.

Anyone have any thoughts or experience with the G-Max vs E-Max thing?

Terry, thanks for all your help. Your website has been HUGE in opening my eyes to what's the scoop on toilets these days!

Wayne
 

Jimbo

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There really isn't anyone around, probalby including the government gurus, who has done more toilet testing than Terry. He tests them in the way that counts...he puts it in his house and uses it.

Very sound advice to take the Map numbers as advice, but don't get hung up trying for a hundred points one way or another. I suspect that once you are over a 500, they type of toilet paper used, and the amount of paper, and your personal waste, are variable which affect flushing performance much more than the numbers. ( not to get too graphic, but "waste" varies hugely across the spectrum of users in the country. Talk to someone who cares for elderly individuals, or individuals with serious medical conditions and/or a lot of meds)
 

CarlH

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Anyone have any thoughts or experience with the G-Max vs E-Max thing?

I have both and would have no hesitation with getting another E-Max. As a matter of fact, I did just order a second one for a bathroom renovation. I think the E-Max has been out long enough to prove itself. I have had mine installed for about 2 years now and I don't have any complaints. I have not seen any complaints here either.

Also, it might be worth checking to see if you are in one of the municipalities that offers a rebate if you install a HET (high efficiency toilet).
www.toiletrebate.com/toilet_rebates_in_texas.php
 

wdarner

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OK, decision has been made ... looks like we're going to go with the E-Max version (eco) of the Clayton. Carl, thanks for the link for the rebates. Nothing there for me right now, but it's good to know it's there. I'll keep my eye on it.

Thanks everyone for the help. We probably won't get it installed for about a month until our remodel gets done, but I'll try and report back when it goes in.

Wayne
 
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