Clack WS1 Water Softener Issues

[Badsha]

Hello,

I have a Clack WS1 and Carbon Tank. I noticed that the water has been different for the past few days, not soft, more spotting. I tested with a Hach 5b kit and found 20GPG from the tap. I checked the Clack WS1 valve meter and time was correct and the Carbon tank valve meter time was correct. Brine tank has a lot of salt pellets.

There was a planned power outage back in December 19, 2014. But once power was restored, I set the times on both the water softener and carbon tank. Did I need to do anything with the button battery in the water softener?

I also checked for leaks and did not see any.

Carbon Tank - time to regen 4 days

Water Softener Capacity - 545 gallons. Does this mean I have 545 gallons of softened water?

The water in the Brine Tank tube looks oily for some reason, not sure if that is normal?

Do you guys think its that salt bridge problem? I can see the salt pellets on the bottom through that Brine Tank Tube.

 

[Mialynette2003]

From what I can see, it looks as if there is too much water in the salt tank. If this is the case, the unit is not drawing the brine. Start the unit into a regen cycle and advance it to brine. Remove the brine tubing from the valve and feel for a draw. If no draw, remove the venturi and check for debris. Also, as the valve is rotating through the different positions, listen for air. If there is a lot of air this will indicate the unit is drawing air instead of brine.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Badsha]

I ran a manual regen last night. Water hardness is down to 2GPG. Use to be less than 1 GPG. The water in the brine tank was all the way at the bottom.

Remove the brine tubing from the valve and feel for a draw - Sorry does this mean the tubing as pictured? The tubing in the brine tank? Or the actual valve on the Clack WS1 sitting on top of the water softener tank?

If no draw, remove the venturi and check for debris - no idea what that is. I have the manual, will look into it.

Also, as the valve is rotating through the different positions, listen for air. If there is a lot of air this will indicate the unit is drawing air instead of brine- Does this occur during the regen/brine process?

 

[Mialynette2003]

The brine line attaches to the valve with a nut. The same way it attaches to the float assembly in the brine tank. You can remove either one, put the unit into a draw cycle and feel for a suction. If the unit is drawing air, you will hear bubbles when the valve is changing positions.

 

[Badsha]

Ok makes sense now. Do I need to place unit on bypass or anything? I am a complete newbie at this.

Current Configuaration:

 

[Badsha]

Valve Positions:

 

[Reach4]

Not familiar with that unit, but I am confident that when you put a softener into a cycle like brine draw, it puts itself into bypass as far as passing water to your plumbing-- just as it would when it regenerates in the middle of the night. You would not want to use a manual bypass, because it will need to have water to do the brine draw.

 

[Mialynette2003]

Call me and I will walk you through it. 352-454-2992

 

[Badsha]

The washers in the brine tube assembly look good

 

[Badsha]

I heard air when I disconnected the brine tubing to check washers. Suction was good.

I did hear air during Brining even after I replaced the nuts of the brine tubing. I did not hear air during the filling process. Brine tube water level was pretty good.

Salt level did go down after last manual regeneration.

Average water usage for Nov. 14, 2014 - Feb. 11, 2015 = 2124 gallons

 

[Badsha]

Hello. I have been having some issues with my water softener on and off and did some troubleshooting on my own. The system is about 2 years old. I would appreciate any questions or help.

Last maintenance step I preformed was to cut the Jaco tube fitting coming from the brine tank because of suction issues. This fixed some of the water softener issues. After looking at everything, I came to the conclusion that there could be a salt bridge at the bottom of the brine tank, so I did a thorough cleaning of the brine tank and brine tube assembly. I added new Diamond salt pellets (2 bags or 80lbs).

1. Is there supposed to be brine water in the tank above the salt pellets? Not sure if all the brine water is supposed to be used up after each cycle.

2. Do I need to also put water in the brine tank on top of the new salt pellets? Or will the system generate its own brine water?

3. I have noticed that the water is not as soft when there is about 100-400 gallons remaining before the next soft water cycle, is that normal?

 

[Reach4]

1. Salt should be higher than the water level to avoid stratification. It is OK to tilt the salt level to have some above water and water higher than the salt in other parts of the tank. I do that myself, and others just fill the salt up high.

2. The system does that, usually at the end of the cycle. There is a less common setting of having the water come in at the beginning of the cycle. That is called "brine first". When the system is new or you empty the brine tank for cleaning, you would add water for the first regeneration to get things started.

3. Not normal. It is a sign that you should change the settings on your softener. Typically you would increase the HARDNESS setting. Alternative you could lower the CAPACITY setting to compensate.

What are the dimensions of your resin tank? (diameter or circumference) and height.

 

[Badsha]

I bought the Clack WS1 units from a very reputable dealer. I spoke to him at length on my household needs.

System Details here if you are curious:

https://terrylove.com/forums/index....th-proper-system-selection.57651/#post-430512

Water Softener is 1.5CF

Carbon Filter is 1.5 CF

1. Salt should be higher than the water level to avoid stratification. It is OK to tilt the salt level to have some above water and water higher than the salt in other parts of the tank. I do that myself, and others just fill the salt up high.

For the longest time, the water level was above the salt pellets for some reason. But the water softener still worked, but probably not as efficient.

2. The system does that, usually at the end of the cycle. There is a less common setting of having the water come in at the beginning of the cycle. That is called "brine first". When the system is new or you empty the brine tank for cleaning, you would add water for the first regeneration to get things started.

Ok I will add some water - 5 gallons. Should I have added the clean water first?

3. Not normal. It is a sign that you should change the settings on your softener. Typically you would increase the HARDNESS setting. Alternative you could lower the CAPACITY setting to compensate.

My water hardness is 17 GPG and the settings are below. Capacity is set to AUTO.

Ion Exchange Capacity: 36000
Pounds of Salt per Regeneration (LBS): 12
Backwash Set to: NORMAL
Set Gallons Capacity: Auto
Refill Option: POST (refill the brine tank after final rinse)
Regenerant downflow set to: dn (flow downward through the media)
Set Regeneration Time Option: NORMAL (regeneration will occur at preset time)

What are the dimensions of your resin tank? (diameter or circumference) and height.

Water Softener is 1.5CF

Carbon Filter is 1.5 CF

2 Tanks: Each tank is 10" diameter x 54" H

Brine Tank: 18" diameter x 33" H

 

[Bannerman]

From your earlier photos, it appears that you have programmed the capacity as 36,000 grains which is correct for the 12 lb salt setting you are using. I did not see an indication as to your water's actual hardness amount or if your water source is a well or municipal supply. Also not indicated are the number of residents in your home, to estimate of the amount of water consumed.

If your control is programmed to refill the brine tank as the final phase of the regeneration cycle (most common), now that you have cleaned out the brine tank, you need to manually add water to the tank so that brine is prepared for the next regeneration cycle. Any water added to the brine tank at the end of the regen cycle, is always to prepare for the next regeneration cycle.

Although you normally only use 36,000 grains of the total 48,000 grains in 1.5 cuft of resin, any time the salt has run low or the capacity has been exhausted (as you have experienced due to prior suction/salt bridge issues), then the entire resin capacity will need to be restored by regenerating with 27 lbs of salt for 1 regeneration. Once capacity is restored, then subsequent regenerations will only need the usual 12 lbs as programmed and you should no longer experience hardness leakage.

As each gallon of water added to the brine tank will dissolve 3 lbs of salt, you will need to manually add 9 gallons to the brine tank, wait two hours for the salt to dissolve, and then initiate a manual regeneration cycle to restore the total capacity. The system should then at the end of that regeneration cycle, automatically add the required 4 gallons to dissolve 12 lbs salt for the next regeneration cycle, whenever that is needed.

Edit to add: Any water manually added to the brine tank, should be poured down the brine tank tube, not poured over the salt.

 

[Badsha]

Bannerman the water supply is Municipal.

STATS

Water pressure: 75-80psi (tested from spigot front/back of the house)

2 adults and 1 child in the home

1.5 baths: 1 Shower, 1 Handheld body sprayer, 1 Tub, 2 Toilets, 2 Faucets.

Kitchen - Dishwasher, Faucet, Refrigerator water dispenser/ice maker

Laundry - Washer

City Water

Grains of hardness - 16-17 grains per gallon (gpg)
pH - 6.5
Iron - no detectable levels
Chlorine - NA, water company uses Chloramines
TDS: 308 ppm

More details here with photos https://terrylove.com/forums/ind...th-proper-system-selection.57651/#post-430512

Although you normally only use 36,000 grains of the total 48,000 grains in 1.5 cuft of resin, any time the salt has run low or the capacity has been exhausted (as you have experienced due to prior suction/salt bridge issues), then the entire resin capacity will need to be restored by regenerating with 27 lbs of salt for 1 regeneration. Once capacity is restored, then subsequent regenerations will only need the usual 12 lbs as programmed and you should no longer experience hardness leakage.

As each gallon of water added to the brine tank will dissolve 3 lbs of salt, you will need to manually add 9 gallons to the brine tank, wait two hours for the salt to dissolve, and then initiate a manual regeneration cycle to restore the total capacity. The system should then at the end of that regeneration cycle, automatically add the required 4 gallons to dissolve 12 lbs salt for the next regeneration cycle, whenever that is needed.

Edit to add: Any water manually added to the brine tank, should be poured down the brine tank tube, not poured over the salt.

I added 2 bags of 40lbs each, so 80 lbs should be sufficient. So I should have added the water first. The brine tube is the white tube I assume. Going to be hard to pour water down there. Is there a reason not to pour over the salt?

 

[Badsha]

Btw I still have 1200 gallons before the next cycle. Is there a rush to add the water? When you say clean water, I can add hard raw water? Or should i add the softened water?

 

[Bannerman]

I recall reading your original thread at the time. Of course, I wouldn't associate that thread from the past with your questions today.

Since you now state the unit indicates 1200 gallons remain available until the next regen cycle, I assume it has regenerated after you cleaned the brine tank. If you didn't add any water to the brine tank after cleaning it, it would not have had any brine available to regenerate with. Although it may indicate there is 1200 gallons remaining until the next regeneration cycle, that is based on a calculation which assumes the appropriate amount of brine was available to be drawn. The valve controller would not know there was no brine available. The remaining capacity displayed is simply a mathematical calculation based upon the capacity, salt dosage and hardness amount that is programmed. If you had programmed the hardness appropriately as 17 grains per gallon, then the controller will deduct 17 grains from the programmed capacity, for every gallon that flows through its water meter. I expect the soft water you are now receiving, is only due to some regenerated capacity remaining within the resin. You will likely soon experience hard water again although the unit may indicate there is capacity remaining.

As I assume there is now 4 gallons of water in the brine tank, you will only need to add an additional 5 gallons to the brine tank, wait 2 hours and initiate a manual regeneration. If you add the water at least two hours before going to bed tonight, you could initiate the manual regeneration before bed so the system will be fully restored when you arise in the morning.

Just add water from your laundry faucet, using a bucket or garden hose.

 

[Reach4]

3. I have noticed that the water is not as soft when there is about 100-400 gallons remaining before the next soft water cycle,

Do the treatment Bannerman describes, but I would also raise your HARDNESS setting from 17 to 20.

 

[Bannerman]

Is there a reason not to pour over the salt?

Not as critical with only 80 lbs in the tank as that entire amount will likely be below the water level once the additional water is added. With a larger quantity of salt, its best to keep it dry as possible as wet salt above the water line can clump and stick together, contributing to salt bridging.. Salt below the water line will either dissolve or will remain too wet so clumping is not so much an issue.

 

[Badsha]

Sorry for the confusion. The 1200 gallons (now 1059 gallons) is from the last regen cycle. I cleaned the brine tank after the last regen. I added water from a hose, but not sure If enough water was added. The water level is a little below the salt level.

With the remaining 1059 gallons, I do not need to perform a manual regen anymore correct? So you guys are suggesting I change the Capacity setting to 17? But isnt the whole point of the electronic valve to calculate hardness on the fly? I am probably not understanding correctly.