Check valves one house well system

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Skeensy

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Hi everyone. Looked all over the place for a diagram with a well setup that includes a sprinkler distribution line as well. This is our bathing and drinking water as well as irrigation. I have the well pump, check valve at the well head down pipe, outside the well , then a 10 foot run to a sprinkler valve box, which is just tee’d off the main line, on to my pressure tank tee, then up to the carbon backwash filter, then the softener, then on to the uv filter , then into the house.
My question is, I don’t know if I have a check valve at the pump. I put the check valve in by the well head house side down pipe because the pressure relief valve set a 75psi was spraying each time the pump would run and get to pressure at the tank. The issue has stopped. I put in the check after the sprinkler tee to start with and then because it was between the pressure tank and the sprinklers it wouldn’t start the sprinklers.
My question is I feel like the sprinklers coming on with no check valve between them and the carbine backwash might be allowing siphoning backwards while the sprinklers run. Would the pressure tank keep the water from back flowing ? Would adding another check valve after the pressure tank before the backwash hurt anything? I’m reading too many check valves are bad. Thank you.
 

Valveman

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Your submersible pump has a check valve, and that is the only check valve you want in the system. Any other check in the line can cause water hammer, which will make the pressure relief pop off. The only way the water could siphon backwards is if you turn off the pump and drain the system with the sprinklers. A check valve after the pressure tank won't hurt anything, but doesn't help either.
 

LLigetfa

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I put the check valve in by the well head house side down pipe because the pressure relief valve set a 75psi was spraying each time the pump would run and get to pressure at the tank.
Assuming a spring loaded check valve, it would create friction loss that when added to all the other friction losses en route to the tank, could raise the pump discharge pressure high enough to pop off the relief valve. Remove the check valve and increase the setting on the relief valve.

Do you have code compliant backflow prevention on the sprinkler line?
 

Skeensy

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Your submersible pump has a check valve, and that is the only check valve you want in the system. Any other check in the line can cause water hammer, which will make the pressure relief pop off. The only way the water could siphon backwards is if you turn off the pump and drain the system with the sprinklers. A check valve after the pressure tank won't hurt anything, but doesn't help either.
Thank you. Well I confirmed that when the sprinklers are running that water is draining backwards from the carbon filter. I turned the uv filter to manual and the light comes on about 10 seconds after the sprinklers drain the pressure on the tank, so I placed a check valve right before the carbon filter. I went up a size to account for resistance and give it more flow. So with both check Valves on right now it seems ok. But you are thinking I need to remove the check valve that is just after the submersible well pump to prevent hammer? If it’s not hammering now should I leave it or are there potential negative consequences beyond hammering?
 

Skeensy

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Skeensy

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Assuming a spring loaded check valve, it would create friction loss that when added to all the other friction losses en route to the tank, could raise the pump discharge pressure high enough to pop off the relief valve. Remove the check valve and increase the setting on the relief valve.

Do you have code compliant backflow prevention on the sprinkler line?
I do not have the backflow on the sprinklers. Would a simple check valve work? It’s all pvc plumbing and those would be easier to fit in the small space I have
 

LLigetfa

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But you are thinking I need to remove the check valve that is just after the submersible well pump to prevent hammer?
It is not a question of "if" but rather when. The check valve in the pump works best when there is pressure against it so with the topside check it does not have pressure against it to aid its seal. Eventually the one in the pump may leak causing the water column to drop if the static level is lower than 30 feet. Not only could this create water hammer but it also starts the pump in a potential upthrust condition.
 

Bannerman

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A double check valve located in the branch line feeding the irrigation system, would prevent backflow from the irrigation system from entering the potable supply and would not affect the pump system.

Since the double check valves will not be preventing flow from the pump or pressure tank, activation of the irrigation system will first draw from the pressure tank until the lower system pressure causes the pressure switch to activate the pump. Any pressure reduction caused by the check valves to the irrigation system will be mainly a result of the force needed to open each check valve gate against its spring closure.

If the OP wishes to upgrade the system with a Cycle Stop Valve, then the CSV would need to be located between the pump and irrigation 'T' so the CSV would likely be most simply installed at the wellhead.
 
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Bannerman

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I confirmed that when the sprinklers are running that water is draining backwards from the carbon filter. I
What is the water source after the carbon filter?

Is there a pressure or thermal expansion tank or a pump or water treatment device after.the carbon filter that is pushing water backwards through the carbon filter which is suppling the irrigation system?
 

LLigetfa

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Would adding another check valve after the pressure tank before the backwash hurt anything?
No that would not hurt but rather should help prevent reverse flow through the carbon filter. Do note that any check valve after the pressure tank creates a closed system and as such will require an expansion tank for the hot water tank.
 
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WorthFlorida

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I do not have the backflow on the sprinklers. Would a simple check valve work? It’s all pvc plumbing and those would be easier to fit in the small space I have
I know it's been a few weeks since you asked, but no, a check valve does not work the same as a backflow preventer. A check valve can fail, the spring breaks, a small stone or debris can prevent the valve from fully closing. For the warm states a vacuum back flow preventer is the more common type since cold freezing weather is not a factor. HD now sells the Watts brand back flow preventer. Irrigation valves can also fail and leak, PVC pipes do break under normal irrigation use and usually it is a hairline crack, PVC cemented nipples and unions can be pulled apart from trees or shrubbery roots. Palm tree roots lift the ground as they grow and landscapers don't care where they plant. I fix my share of leaks for the last 32 years.

Contaminated water can be deadly. At my son's house right up the street, one morning he was a bit delusional and went to the hospital. He checked out ok and few weeks later I noticed puddling by his water meter. We dug down and the PVC nipple from the meter to the house was leaking. It turned out that some idiot plumbers helper used a deformed PVC nipple where the threads were never completely molded. No doubt contaminants entered the house water and fortunately it did not affect my type 1 diabetic granddaughter. This was about eight years ago.
 
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