Can't see pitless due to debris, "snappy" type adapter?

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Slawek

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So glad for this forum; lots of quality posts. Thank you ahead of time. I did a quick search but didn't have luck.

My pump (2 wire) is on the way out and looking to replace it myself. It goes into thermal shutdown under heavier use, and also seems to back-drain.

Casing is 6" steel. I took the cap off to find a hollow ~1" hollow rod terminated just below the top of the casing. I assume that connects to the pitless. Strangely, there is a ground clamp with a short 1" stub of wire connected to nothing else. I presume it was used as a ground at some point.

My problem is that there is a impenetrable layer of debris at about 6-7 feet. I've poked at it with a narrow piece of wood and it won't budge. I connected a 6hp ShopVac through a 1 1/4" PVC pipe and sucked away all the loose debris I could but there is still so much I cannot see the pitless. Picture attached is after vacuuming.

The other problem I see here is that the pipe protruding to the top is somewhat centered in the well. All the video's I've watched seem to have the pipe near the outside of the casing. I called a local company and they gave me some tips including that it may be an "older snappy" style pitless adapter.

I have the oldest house in the neighborhood, original farm house. The only clue I have as to service date is the monitor cap which is 2002 (right before I bought the house)

All questions:
1. How to loosen up and clean debris to get to pitless?
2. What kind of pitless adapter may I have? Where is the release cord if needed?
3. Can/should I use the same adapter once I get the new pump in?
4. Any other precautions or words of warning?

cover.jpg closeup_zoomed.jpg cover2.jpg
 

VAWellDriller

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Yeah that's not a snappy that's a spool type and hasn't been put in a LONG time. You should call a pro....and they will need a taper tap to get on that rusty pull pipe. It looks pretty bad to me...you may end up having to dig this up. Get ahead of it and schedule the work when you can plan to maybe be out of water for a bit while its getting fixed.
 

Slawek

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Most likely it is a Baker Monitor.
Yeah that's not a snappy that's a spool type and hasn't been put in a LONG time.

Spool type... interesting. One missing keyword and a wealth of information is available to me now! I haven't read into it yet, but in general, would you just yank on it to bring it up like a modern horseshoe pitless adapter?

It looks pretty bad to me...you may end up having to dig this up.

I knew I had something unique here... By dig up, do you just mean outside of the casing just to get to the pitless height in order to change it out for something modern?
 

LLigetfa

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The Baker Monitor sits on top of your casing and acts as a casing extender. If you change it out to a different pitless, you will need to extend the casing.
 

Slawek

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Reach4

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Is it safe to assume I have the o-ring type spool and would simply require yanking it up with no removal of any latching hardware?
That is how those work, but this may not be a good DIY job. You find you have 20 ft piece of galvanized pipe hanging. What do you do then?

You would also want new o-rings and appropriate silicone lube standing by for reinstall.

I don't know about the pulling lube for you. Think potable. Maybe water?
 

Slawek

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I called the local well place and they have a record from 2002 which was right before I bought the place. At that point they only chlorinated it and replaced the cap so pump is 17+ years.

Getting a quote, but I'll likely give it a go. Getting ~300 gallon water backup source organized for the down time. Also got my eye on a gantry.

If I get it out and it has a galvanized pump, I'll likely replace it for PVC anyway. Thanks for all the tips so far.
 

Reach4

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I called the local well place and they have a record from 2002 which was right before I bought the place. At that point they only chlorinated it and replaced the cap so pump is 17+ years.

Getting a quote, but I'll likely give it a go. Getting ~300 gallon water backup source organized for the down time. Also got my eye on a gantry.
Give what a go? Replacing a working pump? With no symptom, I would not do so. The existing pump may be good for another 15 years, and a new pump might only last 10.

If you have symptoms, that's different.
If I get it out and it has a galvanized pump, I'll likely replace it for PVC anyway. Thanks for all the tips so far.
Galvanized pipe, not pump. That is probably what you meant. If DIY with no hoist truck, consider SIDR polyethylene pipe.
 

Slawek

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Give what a go? Replacing a working pump? With no symptom, I would not do so. The existing pump may be good for another 15 years, and a new pump might only last 10.

If you have symptoms, that's different.

It goes into thermal shutdown under heavier use, and also seems to back-drain.

I mentioned some symptoms in the first post. It's also been slow to build pressure.

Galvanized pipe, not pump. That is probably what you meant. If DIY with no hoist truck, consider SIDR polyethylene pipe.

Yes, I did mean pipe. Thanks for the tip on type.
 

Slawek

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I gave pulling the pump a try. I welded a 1" to 1 1/4" adapter to the existing pull pipe and made a t-handle. Using two car jacks I attempted to pull up the spool but it would not budge. Was pounding on it with a 2x2 to try to break the seal but it didn't help. Also poured water over it and let it sit but didn't' help either. The re-bar started to bend and the jacks had to be pumped really hard so I suspect I had several hundred pounds of upward force on the thing.

I have doubts a pro could even pull this spool out. Should I just start digging and then call the pros and have them replace the top casing portion and convert to a modern pitless adapter?

adapter_weld.jpg jack.jpg
 

VAWellDriller

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If you call a good driller with a decent pump truck.....they will have the right tools and equipment to SAFELY attempt to remove it. What I saw looked pretty corroded. I would have someone come try that can pull with a 5 or 6 ton pump hoist....I'd they can't do it with that then get digging. I use a lot of these pitless units and the worst one I ever pulled took about 8000lbs more pull than the pumping equipment weighed (measured with digital load indicator on crane).
 

Slawek

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My saga continues. I was committed to dig up the casing to the height of the adapter, cut the casing above the adapter, remove the adapter and pump, and re-extend the casing to the surface with new hole for new pitless adapter and so on

Except I ran into this 4'x4'x3" slab. Could this have been a below grade well that was extended and then had a slab poured over it?

I can break up the slab and continue digging (it's already broken in two) and continue my plan above, but I want to be sure I'm not doing useless work at this point. Even if I end up with a professional doing the work, I'll appreciate saving a few bucks with the prep work.

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Slawek

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Continuing to post here for any future lurkers who find themselves in similar situation.

Crane is out of question due to my deck being in the way. I had a guy come out who has a powerful hydraulic jack. Unfortunately, the pipe snapped off and left the thread in the pitless. (I blame the cheap new pipe I bought at Menards. Made in Vietnam). He didn't have the ability to continue the work so it's back in my hands.

I got to digging like I figured I would have to last week. I dug by hand with a little help from an auger to loosen the dirt. After getting down about six feet I found a 4-bolt flange. I guess I'm lucky because I originally thought I would have to cut the casing. The flange says "Midwest Well Supply Co. Chicago, IL 541-6x6". Anyone have a clue where I can get a new sealing ring? Does 6x6 mean it's a 6" casing to 6" casing joiner?

Plan now is to build up a strong hoist to lift the top casing along with the pitless, pipe, and pump. I'm hoping to be able to pound the pitless out and convert it to a modern pitless. I was hoping to install a manual backup pump so it will be nice to have the extra room. The only potential roadblock I see with converting to new pitless is if the casing narrows in diameter and won't provide clearance for the poly pipe hose clamps.

jack.jpg flange.jpg pipe.jpg hole.jpg
 
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