Can you use modified thin set with Kerdi and Ditra?: Yes if you use Ardex

[Vegas_sparky]

Can I make a request, Roberto. Determining cure by the appearance through the glass may be subjective. Can you do some kind of bond test with the winner and loser when this portion of testing is over? Maybe after 24 hours(typical real world wait time), 48, and 96 hours. This would help clarify if these products are bonding while they would appear to be wet.

Maybe perform this experiment with a sample on plain drywall, and another on a waterproof membrane. This would give a decent approximate estimate of cure time/strength differences.

You guys are gonna have me playing with this stuff pretty soon. LMAO

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

.....I tried , John , but I didn't listen . Now it is time .

I told you.

Your mind becomes clearer.

You become less angry.

And you have more time in the day.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Eurob]

Hey Vegas , no problem . The cure through the glass is a good indication of how the humidity '' moves '' and it is released .

The test of bonding of the mortar -- if you trust me -- it will be how well the mortar adhered to the glass . I can do it anytime , however I would like to try and see how well is performing when I will submerged them in hot water . The ones not bonding well will just give up -- like the unmodified -- .

I will retest the GraniRapid soon , actually 4 different tests and see how it goes .

All of the modified mortars will adhere well to extremely well to the drywall paper face . To a liquid membrane , the highly modified will perform better than the regular modified ones .

Do you have a mortar in mind ?

 

[Eurob]

I told you.

Your mind becomes clearer.

You become less angry.

And you have more time in the day.

Yeah , my mind is already clearer now . I will post soon the pictures with the findings at the 120 hours mark .

 

[Vegas_sparky]

I think a comparison between what appears to be best vs what appears to be worst would suffice.

I'm sure we all agree the drywall will suck the moisture right out of the mortars, and they'll have a sufficient bond in a reasonable time.

Comparing that against the tile bond strength over the membrane should give a good indication of the cure bond strength vs humidity/moisture content. Just cause its green, doesn't necessarily mean its weak.

 

[Eurob]

The best one , over all should be GraniRapid .

2) Kerabond&Keralastic
3) X77
4) 254
5)Nanolight
6)Ultralite
7)X5
8) 255

It is hard to differentiate in between them and it is application specific .

I do not like to work with the 254 , but I like what I see while testing .

I am impressed with the Nanolight progress ....... I really don't see any traces of humidity . It is the most elaborate in humidity dispersing I've seen . Should I mention that it is 2 years old ( bag ) ?

Ultralite is a good mortar and I've used it with success for a long time . Love working with it .

X77 I am discovering it more and more . Very good coverage capabilities and nice texture . It is a truly non sag mortar .

What mortar are you going to use for your tub surround ?

 

[Vegas_sparky]

You turned me on to Pro-lite, and I'm staying with it. That was the first time I've used anything other than big box crap. I didn't know how strong a mortar bond could be until I tried to pull a test piece off the wall, out of curiosity.

Sticky, no sag, and the mixed buckets of material were a breeze to carry up the stairs.

 

[Eurob]

Great choice Vegas . Combined with the CBP's waterproof membrane , you have a winner .

 

[Eurob]

So here is the 120hours mark .

1) GraniRapid -- 96h to 120h (5 days ) mark.

There is a possible cure progress under the glass of about 5-10% .

 

[Eurob]

2) Kerabond&Keralastic -- 96h to 120h (5 days ) mark.

There is a cure progress under the glass of about 10 -15% .

 

[Eurob]

3) 254P-- 96h to 120h (5 days ) mark.

There is a cure progress under the glass of about 15-20% .

 

[Eurob]

4) 255M-- 96h to 120h (5 days ) mark.

There is a cure progress under the glass of about 1/2'' shrink of the humid circle area.

 

[Eurob]

5) Nanolight-- 96h to 120h (5 days ) mark.

There are no visible signs of cure or humidity present under the glass .

 

[Eurob]

6) Ultralite-- 96h to 120h (5 days ) mark.

Minor visible signs of cure with barely visible dots of humidity present under the glass of about 15% .

 

[Eurob]

7) X5 -- 96h to 120h (5 days ) mark.

There is a cure progress under the glass of about 10-15% .

 

[Eurob]

8) X77 -- 96h to 120h (5 days ) mark.

There is a cure progress under the glass of about 10-15% .

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

Yeah , my mind is already clearer now . I will post soon the pictures with the findings at the 120 hours mark .

Give it a couple weeks to fully realize the benefit of quitting.

I think the process of posting over and over again is like Brain Washing. The more people read the same info time and again the more it gets repeated. Then it gets said so much that it becomes a fact - when it was never one to begin with.

You sell features your product has over the competition. The one company's feature is that the cheapest products can and should be used. The others say different. One company says do ABC. The other ACD. One says DAE. All three are right. All three are approved.

Each company paid it's own lab to prove it's right.

I like Roberto's tests. I like the X77 the best so far from the pictures I see. I'm not noticing any effloresce or skim over.... No cracks. Even drying.... Looks good.

 

[ShowerDude]

much like church and state should be seperate, so too should mfg and standards.

once politics and standards are moneterily motivated we the public get shafted....most people to busy workin 3 jobs to even notice how it all works.





on a siede note ardex x-5 is about 23$ a bag and x-77 in the 35$ range here locally......

im thinking x-5 for my next project

it appears to be a great do-all mortar.. they approve it for large format, and most stone....


so john you like the 254 over x77 ?

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

I have not set them side by side.

I like that Laticrete recommends only 254 for a steam shower. I like that they have a vapour proofing membrane better than Kerdi and Kerdi DS.

I don't like the printing on the membrane.

Ardex has no steam shower specification. Neither does Mapei. Schluter's sucks. I hate Wedi Board. Noble is awesome but I did not have any inventory on hand.

I'm going to build all my steamer with Laticrete start to finish. I'll add in some extra touches and take my chances with the process.

This current steam shower is a nightmare to prep.

Heated Shower Bench.
Undermount tub.
Window in shower
Vertical Niche with 3 glass shelves
Sky Light.
13+ penetrations in the membrane

And to make it even harder some dumb ass ordered a Kerdi Line drain...... I hate that and can not rip it out.

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

You know what bugs me most about this testing is the Grani Rapid and all the freaked weird circles under the glass. That and the cracking in the mortar.

I used Grani Rapid on my own exterior deck.

I have used it for years.

Says on the bag no efflorescence. Looking closer I wonder how true that is.

A setter I used to work with told me he used Grani Rapid out on a exterior deck on concrete. They did a poor job of hoarding the deck and the deck got wet on day 4 after curing.

Deck crapped out with efflorescent the the rep told them they have to keep all Grani installs dry for seven days.