Can you use modified thin set with Kerdi and Ditra?: Yes if you use Ardex

[Eurob]

A quick follow up .....

The Ardex X5 and X77 passed the test with the Kerdi and the glass sample .

These are exactly inline with what Ardex is recommending . They manufacture great mortar products , just check the date codes for reliability .

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

Thanks Roberto. Good work on the private testing for us all.

A least people who do work with Kerdi can now at least use a premium modified thin-set like the TCNA and TTMAC require for most tile installs....

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Eurob]

Odd , the say the least .

HE is probably right , but usually the builds -- bathroom , showers , steam showers, etc. -- tend to remain .

WE just make sure they perform well after we are going away .

 

[Jadnashua]

Most pros have known for years, and Schluter will honor your warranty, IF you use either a premium dryset mortar on top of their membranes OR you use a rapid setting modified. That these guys are making it a big deal seems a little silly. The reason it's important (at least to Schluter, and probably you) to use a dryset or a rapid setting mortar (one that doesn't need to dry to attain strength) is that there is very little opportunity for the mortar to dry out (the latex modifiers need to dry to attain their strength) between a waterproof membrane and a nearly impervious tile. The TCNA has been saying this also for years in their handbook. Since most people won't wait for their latex modified mortar to dry out, the installation is at risk, and at least Schluter isn't willing to risk that. Now, there are likely thousands of installs where it has been done, and that is a tribute to the high specs of the mortar manufacturers' research departments. But keep in mind, those formulations can change at the manufacturer's whim, and what may have worked one day, may no longer work the next. As a result, the membrane manufacturer has the final say about what he knows will work...a premium dryset mortar meeting A118.1 standards, which is abided by across the entire industry, regardless of the manufacturer. Those meeting A118.4, .11, or .15 can meet them with various means, some of which need to dry to perform which will take an unpredictable timeframe when used over a membrane, and some which do not need to dry to perform (those WILL work).

 

[Eurob]

Good work on the private testing for us all.

At least people who do work with Kerdi can now at least use a premium modified thin-set like the TCNA and TTMAC require for most tile installs....

The Ardex mortars used are modified , but not rapid setting ones .

I am still waiting for a fresh X32 to arrive at my distributor to make a test with it. Probably another modified , but non rapid mortar , working in the test configuration .

 

[Jadnashua]

The Ardex mortars used are modified , but not rapid setting ones .

Acrylic modifiers generally work, too, but not always...there's lots of ways to make a mortar, multiple materials that make it a 'modified', and primarily, those that only rely on latex based materials are not suitable. The mortar must become stable in the presence of water to be suitable, and rapid setting mortars, as a class, do. This is the main reason why someone like Schluter doesn't like to give a specific generic recommendation on mortars used with their products, and require you to call them if you choose not to use a premium A118.1 dryset. They want to ensure that it will work.

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

The exterior deck job on the project I'm working on is being done by a new crew. They prepped the torch on deck with 1.5" concrete mortar bed. Left it a good month. Coated it out with Ardex 8+9. The boys started setting yesterday with X32.

I asked them who they like it. They said they love it. It costs too much. But the only thing that does not contribute to effloresce. The 8+9 is not being used as a waterproofing material but rather a primer for the X32 and offering up crack isolation from the 1.5" concrete work.

What I found interesting was that the boss came back at days end to torch the fresh tiles. Just a little to warm them up. Said something about helping the X32 kick.

 

[Jadnashua]

From the Ardex X32 tech data sheet http://www.ardexamericas.com/en-us/Documents/TechData_En_X32.pdf:

"Ardex X 32 must be worked at material, surface and ambient temperatures above 50-degrees F (10-degrees C)."​

It didn't get above that minimum today in Vancouver, at least where they actually measure things, and keep in mind, this includes not only the material, but what you are installing it on, and the stuff that's been there for awhile had chilled out and the low was a LOT colder than the high. And, they should stay at or above that minimum through at least the initial cure (3-hours). Lots of luck. A hit with a torch might help, but by no means could get the entire material above the minimum, so the overall strength is in question.

There's a right way and a wrong way to use materials, and this is definitely not right.

 

[Eurob]

The boys started setting yesterday with X32.

I asked them who they like it. They said they love it. It costs too much. But the only thing that does not contribute to effloresce.

How much do you get the X32 for ? Did they have fresh mortar in stock ?

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

X32 is like $55.00 a bag. Fresh stock in Vancouver

I did clear them out of 8+9 Commercial Units this week. None left in Vancouver. Had to rock the little units and their shitty handles. Have I bitched lately about the shitty handle on the Ardex 8+9 box?

 

[ShowerDude]

8+9 is $65 for the box units. x-5 is $26 x-7 i think $38.

thats with my discounts!!!!


whos fullysprinklered? i dont get it?

 

[Eurob]

X32 - 59$ no fresh stock
8+9 - 62$ box unit

I was also trying to get my hands on the X7R with no luck on the fresh side , yet .

 

[FullySprinklered]

8+9 is $65 for the box units. x-5 is $26 x-7 i think $38.

thats with my discounts!!!!


whos fullysprinklered? i dont get it?

Ten pages of tile schmutz? Somebody's wired.

 

[ShowerDude]

schmutz! i have not heard that term since 87'

do you need A hug? a wired hug?

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

Stone guy told me of a new Sku from Ardex. N31 I think he said. He told me it's like X32 but with a finer aggregate. X32 is tough on the mixing paddles and your hands. My left palm is raw from yesterday's shift. I lean out on my left hand and punch with my right knuckles to beat the tile in.

Today my right fist is sore and left palm even more so. If I had a skirt on I would wear gloves.... But someone might see me! lol

 

[Vegas_sparky]

whos fullysprinklered? i dont get it?

Them's were some strange posts.

Gopher a morning caught cat my this. Good kitty.

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

Awesome. My cat caught two birds and a mousse yesterday! Weird. That would be about the fifth bird and third mouse in three years. Must be the cold....

I bought two new bags of X32 yesterday and checked the date codes. One was made in June and the other in August. So fresh....

 

[Eurob]

That's nice -- fresh mortar -- John .

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

That's nice -- fresh mortar -- John .

I guess the trucks head West more than East Roberto! nice a fresh.....

Had to goggle my blog post yesterday again. I think I will write on the wall somewhere at the supplier to save that time. I did notice a new coding yesterday. The code for white and grey is the fifth number at the start. Just left of the date code three digit number...

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

See the number 12595? the last five is for White. The grey bags end in a 4 so the start is 12594.

Here is a screen shot of the X32 fray codes for 2014 taken from my blog page...

​