Can Pressure tanks be installed above a jet pump?

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog. Water is life.' started by 6.7L_MegaCab, Apr 20, 2021.

  1. 6.7L_MegaCab

    6.7L_MegaCab New Member

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    New Mexico
    I just replaced a 15-year-old jet pump a couple weeks ago, then found out the old pressure tank is on its last leg. So I'm upgrading from a single 86 gallon tank to two 86 gallon tanks. Oddly enough, this was cheaper than a single 119-gallon tank that is not available anywhere locally. The pump house is a decent size for a single tank, but with two tanks, it's going to be a tight squeeze with the jet pump and two tanks on the floor.

    Would there be any problem building a heavy-duty platform that is two to three feet above the jet pump to put the two tanks on? I already have excess material on hand from another project, so there really isn't any additional cost involved.

    My well is configured as follows: in-ground pump --> 3K storage tank --> jet pump --> pressure tank --> house about 100 feet away, slightly downhill from pump house.

    Thank you very much in advance for any recommendations!
     
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Not a problem per se. These tanks will be heavy, and you should probably design to be strong enough if the diaphragm were to fail and the tanks filled completely with water.

    Pressure switch should be near the input to one of the pressure tanks.

    Protect plastics from sunlight. Protect the storage tank from sunlight that promotes algae.
     
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  4. Bannerman

    Bannerman Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Instead of installing 1-119 or 2-86 gallon tanks, you may want to consider instead installing a Cycle Stop Valve and a 4.5 or 10-gallon tank.

    Valveman is a moderator on this forum and is also the developer and manufacturer of CSV devices.

    https://cyclestopvalves.com/

     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2021
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  5. 6.7L_MegaCab

    6.7L_MegaCab New Member

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    Interesting... So then my question is how does this compare with energy usage? Our electric bills between January and March were nearly as high as they are during the summer. Needless to say, it took me a while to find out that the pump was running constantly and the cause of the high electric bills.

    Now, as I understand this cycle stop valve, the pump won't be running constantly, just on demand. But how does that compare to running larger pressure tanks? I already bought the two tanks, but have no problem loading them back up and returning them if there is a clear advantage. The last thing I want to have is overheating the jet pump.

    We are planting grass in the backyard, so there will be an additional demand from what we already have (thus the reason for two tanks, to reduce the pump cycle). The well is also shared with our second property that has water plumbed to a small trailer.

    Any issues running this with a pump saver that I just installed as well?

    Sorry for all the questions, but this sparked my interest, just need a little more understanding.
     
  6. 6.7L_MegaCab

    6.7L_MegaCab New Member

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    Yeah I'm factoring that in. I have quite a bit of 2x8 douglas fir leftover from the deck project, so that should be plenty strong to support the weight. I'll run some calculations to be certain though. Everything is covered and nothing is exposed to sunlight. When I go to pull the old tank, I'll finish the inside with insulation as well (poorly done by whoever built that pump house)

    The pressure switch is installed on the pump. I'll go out and snap a pic of the current setup.
     
  7. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    A horizontal 1/2 hp submersible horizontal in a flow inducer will pump as well or better than a 1 hp jet pump for half of the power. Quieter too. The water cools it.

    Big tanks will take less electricity.

    Pump saver would be for the well pump, not the cistern pump, right?
    CSV will reduce cycling a lot when you are watering the lawn.
     
  8. 6.7L_MegaCab

    6.7L_MegaCab New Member

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    Here is a picture of the current setup with the old tank. The wires coming out of the ground to the control box on the left is the old well that is currently disconnected...that'll get cleaned up when I embark on this project.
    jet-pump-pressure-tank_L.jpg
     
  9. 6.7L_MegaCab

    6.7L_MegaCab New Member

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    The jet pump is fed from the 3K storage tank that is behind me when I took the picture. The storage tank is fed from the in-ground pump about 60 feet away.
     
  10. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    I presume the well has limited production, and thus the need for the cistern.
     
  11. 6.7L_MegaCab

    6.7L_MegaCab New Member

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    I thought so. The local well driller that installed the pump (and drilled both the new and old wells) talked me out of the submersible pump. So I probably go that route any time soon.

    So there is a benefit to having the bigger tanks. Electricity is getting expensive out here. Once I get the back yard finished, the next project is going to be solar.


    For the jet pump in the pic I posted.

    So there is an advantage to the CSV, but it may cost us more in the long run from what it sounds like?
     
  12. 6.7L_MegaCab

    6.7L_MegaCab New Member

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    The old well was only producing about 5 GPM if I recall. That was when the cistern was installed. The new well drilled about 5 or 6 years ago was calculated at 15 GPM. This all predates us. We bought the place 3 years ago.
     
  13. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Usually you would just use a float switch to inhibit the jet pressure pump when the cistern was empty.
     
  14. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    At some point, you should be able to dump the cistern, and draw your water right from the well. Or keep the cistern as firefighting water for pumper trucks. That way you are not so concerned about stuff growing in the cistern. Super quiet.
     
  15. 6.7L_MegaCab

    6.7L_MegaCab New Member

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    That's interesting. It's not even tied together electrically. The float just activates the in-ground pump.
     
  16. 6.7L_MegaCab

    6.7L_MegaCab New Member

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    The time we've been here, nothing has grown in the tank. I just checked it a couple of weeks ago and clear as day. It is probably time to run another test on it though.

    I thought about isolating the tank, but, in the event the electricity goes out (which happens a few times a year), I can still get water from the tank.

    It's so far away from us, I can't even hear the pump running. Even when I'm out in the garage (closer to the pump house), I can barely hear it running.
     
  17. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Top float switch shuts off the well pump, possibly with Pump Saver in series if well might run dry.

    Lower float switch inhibits the pressure pump if the well runs dry. In series with pressure switch. This is not to say that you could not use a Pump Saver etc to shut things down if the cistern got empty, as you are doing.
    [​IMG]
     
  18. 6.7L_MegaCab

    6.7L_MegaCab New Member

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    Thank you for the visual. I'll look into a bottom float switch. Definitely not how the system is set up here. Over time I may look into a submersible pump. We'll see how this current pump works out.

    The pump saver is for the jet pump only. There isn't one for the well pump, although, now that you mentioned it, I may look into getting one for the well pump now.
     
  19. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    You could move the one you have now, if you use a float switch to shut off the jet pressure pump.
     
  20. Bannerman

    Bannerman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Without a CSV, the pump will always pump at its maximum capacity so power consumption will always be at the pump's maximum while it is running.

    If your pressure switch range is 40/60 psi, running a 3 GPM shower will utilize the water from the pressure tank until pressure is eventually reduced to 40 causing the pump to become activated whereby the pump will refill the PT until the pressure rises to 60 to cause the pump to shut down. This process will continue to be repeated as long as water continues to be consumed.

    If for instance your pump is capable of 15 GPM but with only 3 GPM flowing to the shower, then 12 GPM will flow to the pressure tank while the shower and pump are running.

    In using a CSV, the 15 GPM pump will become activated @ 40, the CSV will allow the pressure to rise to a constant 50 psi to provide the 3 GPM to the shower. Although the pump will continue to operate for as long as water is consumed, because the pump will be delivering only the amount of water needed (ie: 3 GPM), the pump will be performing less work and therefore will consume less electricity which will cause it to run cooler.

    The minimum flow rate through the CSV is 1 GPM which will ensure there will be sufficient cooling for the pump. Once water is no longer needed, the pressure tank will continue to fill at only 1 GPM until 60 psi is achieved whereby the pressure switch will shut off the pump.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
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  21. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    Occupation:
    Pump Controls Technician
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Return those two big pressure tanks while you can still get your money back. Big pressure tanks were made obsolete almost 30 years ago because of the Cycle Stop Valve. The weight of those two big pressure tanks is just the first of many problems they will cause. You water doesn't come from the pressure tanks, it comes from the well and cistern, where you have many thousands of gallons stored. All the pressure tank does is limit the number of on/off cycles. and when you have a CSV to do that for you, a small pressure tank is all that is needed. NO, NO, and NO the CSV will not increase the electric bill. I am sure your bill was high from the pump running 24/7, but that won't happen with a CSV. The pump only runs when you are using water. $5 a month is the average electric bill for a house. I have seen the CSV increase the electric bill to $7 a month and also decrease the bill to $3 a month. It just depends on how you use the water, but won't make much difference in the electric bill either way.

    Even if the CSV doubled the electric bill to $10 a month it would take many years to pay off the difference for those two big and expensive pressure tanks. Plus, there are lots of other benefits for using the CSV besides the much smaller and less expensive pressure tank. The strong constant pressure from the CSV will be much better than the large and long pressure dips caused by using large pressure tank(s). Here is what it could look like.

    Jet pump and PK1A.jpeg
     
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